502 Procharger fuel system setup problem
08-25-2015, 04:47 PM
#21
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Oh, another BTW: The ATI regulator is an FMU. Meaning, it has a different rate of fuel pi increase than most referenced regulators. Sometimes , they are 3:1, sometimes 5:1, and in some applications something crzy like 10:1 and 15:1.
FMU's are so 1980's and 90's.
All EFI systems with returns need manifold referenced pressure no matter what. But normal style. It's all about correct net psi at injector tip. Ie: manifold vac/psi vs fuel psi to the injector.
FMU's are so 1980's and 90's.
All EFI systems with returns need manifold referenced pressure no matter what. But normal style. It's all about correct net psi at injector tip. Ie: manifold vac/psi vs fuel psi to the injector.
08-25-2015, 05:53 PM
#22
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I don't have the experience and knowledge that a lot of the other guys commenting on this thread do but I can tell you about my experiences over the last year with a Procharged fuel system. When I purchased my boat my fuel system was set-up just like yours. I think that is the way Procharger recommends to do it. Actually worked pretty good for me.
My set-up was an M3 on a 502 running 7 lbs. of boost. Mefi1 ecu and 1 bar map sensor. Stock 42lb. injectors
Well I put an O2 sensor in my exhaust and found out I was too lean above 4800 rpm. I was running 80 lb. of fuel pressure at full throttle. I also was using the Bell regulator. Since I was too lean I had my Mefi1 reprogrammed to allow more fuel at full throttle. Still was too lean. Since you are at 5 lbs. of boost you might get by with stock injectors. Im not sure about that part.
Anyways this is what I did.
1. Purchased 72lb. injectors from RC Injection. They will fit into the stock rail.
2. Modify the fuel rail per Eddie Young's instruction. Or you can buy one from him. Then you can feed it from both ends and return to the tank.
3. Fab a larger pick up for your fuel tank. I went with .48" ID tube
4. Go -10 line from tank to a fuel/water separator with 1/2" npt fittings then -10 to fuel pump then to the after pump filter. Now -10 to a Y block. Out of
the Y block with a -6 to each end of the fuel rail. come out of the fuel rail to the regulator and return to the tank.
5. The final thing I did was purchased a Holley Hp ECU from Haxby. Everything will plug right into your engine. The Hp is a self tuning unit and Haxby is
a great help with supplying a base tune and helping you out along the way.
Also if you have an older Aeromotive pump you may find that the ethanol in the fuel is eating away at the epoxy in the pump and clogging your injectors with it.
My set-up was an M3 on a 502 running 7 lbs. of boost. Mefi1 ecu and 1 bar map sensor. Stock 42lb. injectors
Well I put an O2 sensor in my exhaust and found out I was too lean above 4800 rpm. I was running 80 lb. of fuel pressure at full throttle. I also was using the Bell regulator. Since I was too lean I had my Mefi1 reprogrammed to allow more fuel at full throttle. Still was too lean. Since you are at 5 lbs. of boost you might get by with stock injectors. Im not sure about that part.
Anyways this is what I did.
1. Purchased 72lb. injectors from RC Injection. They will fit into the stock rail.
2. Modify the fuel rail per Eddie Young's instruction. Or you can buy one from him. Then you can feed it from both ends and return to the tank.
3. Fab a larger pick up for your fuel tank. I went with .48" ID tube
4. Go -10 line from tank to a fuel/water separator with 1/2" npt fittings then -10 to fuel pump then to the after pump filter. Now -10 to a Y block. Out of
the Y block with a -6 to each end of the fuel rail. come out of the fuel rail to the regulator and return to the tank.
5. The final thing I did was purchased a Holley Hp ECU from Haxby. Everything will plug right into your engine. The Hp is a self tuning unit and Haxby is
a great help with supplying a base tune and helping you out along the way.
Also if you have an older Aeromotive pump you may find that the ethanol in the fuel is eating away at the epoxy in the pump and clogging your injectors with it.
08-25-2015, 09:35 PM
#23
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Do you have a vacuum line going to you cool fuel system? Mine increases fuel pressure when the vacuum drop below 10 psi. If not, tune for boost like mentioned earlier. Plumb in an O2 and slowly increase your engine load while tuning. I used MEFIBurn to tune and ran scanpro while running a screen video program to watch RPM, Map and Innovate O2 software. Boats are stupid easy to tune vs. cars.
08-25-2015, 11:19 PM
#24
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Good call on the aeromotives too. When the older s5yle epoxy that holds the magnets on fails, and i think they all do, the magnet flees the outer housing becomes one with the armature and your getting towed back to the trailer. Believe the updated ones have a different color glue . Prob Wont help your erattic pressure issue. But may leave ya stranded
08-26-2015, 08:16 AM
#25
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as said, the fuel system the way procharger does it is a bandaid at best, need good micron filters, before/after pump, a good boost referenced regulator and a return to the tank, stock fuel rails needed to be modded or replaced, eddie young as stated, and ECM needs to be tuned or a good ECM setup installed. A prochager did was to jack up the fuel pressure into the twilight zone and pray you did not hold it wide open for to long !!!!
08-26-2015, 08:51 AM
#26
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Good call on the aeromotives too. When the older s5yle epoxy that holds the magnets on fails, and i think they all do, the magnet flees the outer housing becomes one with the armature and your getting towed back to the trailer. Believe the updated ones have a different color glue . Prob Wont help your erattic pressure issue. But may leave ya stranded
I wonder if I have some of my e-mails with the Aeromotive engineer(s) back then. Maybe 15yrs ago ?
Disaster !
BTW: We did not have ethanol fuel in our area then, and I still got bit bad by the epoxy/magnet thing.
08-26-2015, 01:44 PM
#27
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I ran my m3sc setup w stock gen 6 502 injectors well into the high 600 hp range 8+psi of boost, have still to this day never made a return loop to tank. I teed my return into suction line of pump but i do buffer it with a fuel filter before the pump. all my fuel to the rails goes un obstructed thru thru a aeromotive regulator to rails , the regulator bleeds the extra fuel off thru a bell regulator like your using that is boost referenced and still today i run it like this over 1000 hp. i am running larger injectors , a giant fuel pump and even back when I was making 680 hp I had ecu tuned to open injectors further. I thik tyour un regulated fuel to the rail is screwing you up plus teeing the return directly into fuel pump inlet. the a1000 pump is garbage, atis red regulator is a pos of garbage if your still trying to use it. when I had their regulator my fuel pressure was never the same twice. if you start regulating all your fuel, get the return line further away from your pump this could be made to easily work , install a 02 bung somewhere in your exhaust once you get your fuel press right and have someone tune it or you will wash rings or lean it out and blow it up, Smitty
08-26-2015, 03:17 PM
#28
I ran my m3sc setup w stock gen 6 502 injectors well into the high 600 hp range 8+psi of boost, have still to this day never made a return loop to tank. I teed my return into suction line of pump but i do buffer it with a fuel filter before the pump. all my fuel to the rails goes un obstructed thru thru a aeromotive regulator to rails , the regulator bleeds the extra fuel off thru a bell regulator like your using that is boost referenced and still today i run it like this over 1000 hp. i am running larger injectors , a giant fuel pump and even back when I was making 680 hp I had ecu tuned to open injectors further. I thik tyour un regulated fuel to the rail is screwing you up plus teeing the return directly into fuel pump inlet. the a1000 pump is garbage, atis red regulator is a pos of garbage if your still trying to use it. when I had their regulator my fuel pressure was never the same twice. if you start regulating all your fuel, get the return line further away from your pump this could be made to easily work , install a 02 bung somewhere in your exhaust once you get your fuel press right and have someone tune it or you will wash rings or lean it out and blow it up, Smitty
08-26-2015, 03:43 PM
#29
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Here is a post that I made quite a while back on putting a Procharger on a 502 Mag. I have not read this entire thread, so maybe some of these items were touched on already.
Eddie
IMO, there are several things that should be done if you want it to live a long life and run to its potential.
First, you should change the head gaskets to Cometics. If you are going to run over about 3 psi, then the exhaust valves should be changed to something like Manley's Inconel valves. You will also need to upgrade the fuel system. Take the Procharger regulator and throw it in the garbage. Use a standard 1:1 boost referenced regulator, like an Aeromotive. I would replace not only the fuel filter head to a larger one, but also the fuel lines and the pickup in the tank if it isn't large enough.(most are not large enough in production type boats)
Depending on the year of the 502 mags, there were 3 different versions of the fuel rails. The pre 99 versions have a few issues. The supply hole to the #7 injector needs to be opened up in a mill. Also, the rail should be fed fuel from both ends so that one end isn't run dry. There are quite a few other mods that needs to be done to the rail in order to make it really work correctly. The 99 and up rail needs less mods. It still should be fed from both ends, but it is already threaded for 1/4" NPT, so it's much easier to do.
With 5 psi boost, you should be in the 625 hp area. The stock injectors are good to about 650 hp without killing them by running them to hard. You can make more than 650, but it takes its toll on the injectors. If you have a pre 99 fuel rail, then you will have the Keihin injectors. There are no drop in replacements that are larger than the stockers. You can install larger injectors but it requires drilling out both the intake and the rails and/or replacing the rails with some custom ones. If you have a 99 and up, they use the shorty injectors, so they can be replaced with larger ones if you want to make more power.
The other thing that must be addressed in the ecm. Obviously, it will need to be retuned. The best bet is to put it on the dyno and tune it.
We have done a TON of these. I actually have a few in the shop now that we are doing. If you have any questions or need any help, don't hesitate to give me a call anytime.
Eddie
615-216-7449 shop
504-416-3607 cell
Eddie
IMO, there are several things that should be done if you want it to live a long life and run to its potential.
First, you should change the head gaskets to Cometics. If you are going to run over about 3 psi, then the exhaust valves should be changed to something like Manley's Inconel valves. You will also need to upgrade the fuel system. Take the Procharger regulator and throw it in the garbage. Use a standard 1:1 boost referenced regulator, like an Aeromotive. I would replace not only the fuel filter head to a larger one, but also the fuel lines and the pickup in the tank if it isn't large enough.(most are not large enough in production type boats)
Depending on the year of the 502 mags, there were 3 different versions of the fuel rails. The pre 99 versions have a few issues. The supply hole to the #7 injector needs to be opened up in a mill. Also, the rail should be fed fuel from both ends so that one end isn't run dry. There are quite a few other mods that needs to be done to the rail in order to make it really work correctly. The 99 and up rail needs less mods. It still should be fed from both ends, but it is already threaded for 1/4" NPT, so it's much easier to do.
With 5 psi boost, you should be in the 625 hp area. The stock injectors are good to about 650 hp without killing them by running them to hard. You can make more than 650, but it takes its toll on the injectors. If you have a pre 99 fuel rail, then you will have the Keihin injectors. There are no drop in replacements that are larger than the stockers. You can install larger injectors but it requires drilling out both the intake and the rails and/or replacing the rails with some custom ones. If you have a 99 and up, they use the shorty injectors, so they can be replaced with larger ones if you want to make more power.
The other thing that must be addressed in the ecm. Obviously, it will need to be retuned. The best bet is to put it on the dyno and tune it.
We have done a TON of these. I actually have a few in the shop now that we are doing. If you have any questions or need any help, don't hesitate to give me a call anytime.
Eddie
615-216-7449 shop
504-416-3607 cell
08-26-2015, 08:20 PM
#30
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Just curious, why wouldn't you run full pressure to the rails and then the regulator for those times when you need the maximum volume. And why wouldn't you return the fuel back to the tank to take advantage of the cooling affects it has on the fuel ? What size is your giant pump ?
