looks like you have it all figured out.glad to see that you are in good hands.

yeah,,1-800-merc

ok,i had a set of afr 315 cnc heads that were bought from bob madera checked for valve to guide clearance and got the report today.all intakes ,0015&.0016.all exhaust .0018.these were checked at a very reputable shop that specializes in cylinder heads.these heads were ordered for a 1000 hp supercharged marine engine.just thought i would post my findings.

I will have a set of Raylar 496 heads next week, I plan to verify installed height and guide clearance before installing them. I'll report the findings, not that there is a big market for them here, but it will at least give a point of reference.

Hey DM - ah forget it, you have closed cooling.

Not too many problems with aftermarket heads it seems, who is ecstatic with the upgrade, or at least very happy they made the move.

Had one set of brodix heads 2PR that I had to mill all of the jesel stands where the shaft goes through them like .014 from side to side a real pain in the ass. The roller was not flat on the valve. This was 10yrs ago. Intake and exhaust.

When i switched from merlins vrs to afr 315 CNC's with a bob madera cam i picked up 200+ hp, later on with a bigger yet cam and those heads with one size smaller blower pulley picked up another 165 hp, very happy and no, did NOT need to open valve guides up even though i boat in "great lakes" water !

I almost hate to think of all the heads I have flowed and ported as well as intakes. Bottom line Brodex and Canfield no matter what stage on my bench flowed + or - 5% of there advertised data and had the least amount of machining issues etc and best valve train components stock.

I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I've built about 30 engines using aftermarket cylinder heads. Also have bought a few sets of AFRs from Bob Madera. Never had any problem with the AFRs. Most of these were in the 600 HP range with a few being 900-1000 I've used various Edelbrock BBC and SBC heads with the only problem being the exhaust ports sealing with cast aluminum manifolds. A set of SBC Procomps that were customer supplied required a lot of clearancing to get the pushrods to fit. The biggest problem I ever had was with a set of Dart 325's. There was casting flaw that caused a water port to leak into the valley. That was very difficult to find. Dart claimed to have never heard of such a problem. The fix was to weld the port and resurface the heads.

Bob Lloyd

Edit: I forgot to mention the Raylar 496 heads that developed cracks and leaked water. Had 3 sets of those.

I know of people who've had the GM rectangle port, cast iron heads that had developed cracks between the seats since the 1980's.

I bought 2-pair of cnc'd AFR 315cc heads and cams from Bob Madara back in 2004...I was one of Bob's first customers. A few years ago I bought another 2-sets of AFR heads and cams and other components from Bob for another twin engine project. Most of the time Bob would send the parts first, before I would send the money. I have always respected his consultation and expertise in our discussions.

Also, I have always liked the way Bob has dealt with me over the years and his willingness for both he and my engine builder to work together on my engine projects. If there is anybody that could come up with an excellent head/cam combination, it is Bob Madara.

My engine builder has always inspected and took measurements including honing (if needed) the valve guides to what he knows works for any application.

Anyway, best wishes to you all....and,....You know---you guys be careful with these boats...they're dangerous! :D

Couple Q's:

We're the heads new or used? Did the heads require a valve job? Springs checked? Only reason I ask is with reading of Tims deal with springs and such if that was a fluke or every time you order new heads they need torn down and double checked?

the heads had app 10 dyno pulls and were removed.while they were off i had them touch up the valves.everything was in speck.

Why were the heads pulled?

lets just say the engine developed a problem,but not an issue with the heads.the guy who installed the engine in the boat[me] hooked up some oil lines incorrectly and smoked some bearings.i am standing behind my mistake and fixing it on my dime.yes,even i can fuuk up.

That sucks bad.
It always scares me sooner or later a mistake will take place.
Scratching a 50k paint job scares me all my profits would be gone and some.

In this day and age it is refreshing to see somebody openly admit they made a mistake. In my business I have made it a point to be totally honest, even when it does not cast us in a favorable light. I have found that though it usually costs me initially, I more than make up for it in the long run with customer trust and word of mouth referrals.

I have a new found respect for you Mike.

thanks matt,i did learn from my mistake,i will never trust electric gauge and will always install a mechanical oil pressure test gauge before initial startup in any boat.

AThat really sucks when something goes awry. But you owned it and that says everything about you! Hope the repair goes well.:cool:

if my thread shows anything that would be that not many claims of issues with aftermarket heads.i will add that in my opinion company,s like dart and afr might know a thing or two about producing a good cylinder head.can a bad one slip through the cracks once in a while,i would say yes.just like a new car,something can go wrong.

thanks,just waiting on a few things and will soon be reassembling the engine and putting it back in the boat.

What needed touched up on the heads if they were in spec? Did you have porting done or was this from the engine/bearings going south. Good on ya with the engine though. If only more people in this world would take ownership in anything they do.

By the way, how much HP is the whipple motors in your beak boat cranking out. Bet that thing flys!

only guys trying to pedal cylinder head work say aftermarket cylinder heads have a problem.and why your at it,talk to my buddy,he designs custom chitsticks too.and I do mean chit.

the valves were touched up because the boat owner wanted it done and my whipple engines are just north of 1200 hp so yes it runs pretty good.

Sent my heads in to get milled as well as the exhaust valves and springs changed...

They are 2008 vintage / never ran. They were not ordered necessarily for a marine application.. Just their basic off the shelf head.

The intake & exhaust valve guide clearances were BOTH .0018 out of the box...


Doug

Raylar head, measured one intake and exhaust guide. .0015" intake, .0017" exhaust out of the box. Valves were not installed dry, installed height was right on.

Time to bolt them on and :pray:

so can any one recommend a GOOD head/engine builder before I waste money on "off the shelf junk" I don't trust anyone local to build a good performance MARINE engine.
Hell I'd wrap a new set of heads in my wifes wedding dress and seat belt one into the passenger seat the other in my kids car seat, then drive them 7-8 hours to chicago or detroit to bring them to a good reputable builder.

I was leaning towards dart or edlebrock heads but after reading through this I'm definatley going to look at unassembled heads and bring bare heads to a good shop to have them put the "non assembly line"
finishing touches on them.

Try Goodwin Competition. They are west of Oshkosh

Give JimV (Valako) a call about heads. He is in Grand Rapids. He will take care of you all your head questions.

That;s the spirit ! And who could say no to that ? LOL.

Anyone check the closed/open pressures on the springs that come with AFR heads for a hydraulic roller setup? With the blue stripe on them. I think they are made/sold by Pioneer? Curious what they come with spring wise

They no longer use the pioneer spring, stopped using the pioneer spring over a year ago. Mine came with Pac springs

Was there a way to tell which spring you recieved? I think Full Force Tim's had the pioneer blue stripe spring?

Just looked thru the AFR 2015 catalog, only seeing #8002 blue stripe spring for hydraulic roller. Its listed as a chrome silicon material spring.

http://www.jegs.com/i/AFR-Airflow-Re.../8002/10002/-1

I only know this information cause I dug into it when my builder was checking over the heads and thought the stripe on my springs was blue which is the pioneer spring, and said if they are the pioneer spring we would have to change them. I spoke to AFR directly after talking to Bob and both assured me they were the pac springs, so I went a step further and sent AFR a pic of my spring for clarification and had then send me a pic of the blue stripe spring so I could see for myself. Jerami from AFR said they cleared all inventory of the pioneer spring by September of 2014. the thing is the blue and green stripe are not a clear blue and green like they probably should be

Pic of the green stripe Pac Spring that my builder took
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/x...3/image1_1.jpg

Pic of blue stripe pioneer spring
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/x...D6D0A21DCB.jpg
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/x...3448178434.jpg

Good info, thanks. I'm not as much interested in the brand , but the material of the spring, installed pressures. For example, isky carries chrome silicon springs that cost 200 bucks a set, or Tool Room endurance springs, that cost 450 a set. I believe Pacaloy also has several versions of their spring materials as well. Some for drag, some for stock replacement, some for endurance, etc.

Only reason I am asking, is a buddy is looking into some AFR heads, and trying to weigh the cost of buying assembled, vs bare. He wants a true endurance spring in them. AFR isn't very clear about the actual springs they are supplying, or who they are made by, what part number, etc. They just give you their part number, which doesnt tell you much. Dart at least provides that info, manufacturer of supplied springs, and part number, which you can then research on your own.

Ealesh, safe to say this info is incorrect , or outdated here? Not seeing a "pac" spring available for the bbc hyd roller application? They still showing the pioneer, with their #8002 .

http://www.airflowresearch.com/valve_spec.php

they do on their site, but their site is also not accurate, Jerami told me this when we spoke, cause I asked why the pioneer spring was still listed on there if they did carry it anymore, and he said the need to update it, well I just looked and it is still there lol. Also they have changed around their stripe colors on springs. Like they had pioneer springs also marked with black stripes which they don't anymore and the green stripe isn't a hydraulic roller anymore. I assume they did this for QC as the green and blue is kinda close in color, but that's just a guess. There was also contradicting info on different spots of their site which also contributed to my builders concern. He said the pac is a good spring, but the pioneers were basically junk, and if that's what they were we were going to swap them for the isky tool room springs. Here is the email he sent me confirming the pic i sent them was in fact the green strip pac springs.

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/x...CCFA9FE1A9.png

Yea I wouldn't trust that info on the site, it's different from when i was looking at it over last off season, and there are things added to it from what I remember.

Honestly I would get in touch with AFR and have someone directly address any concerns you may have.

Yes, gotta get in touch with Tim at AFR . Do you remember what your spring pressures were with the supplied springs ?

Thanks for the info .

Fu$% AFR! They`ll send you some $hit box with solid roller springs set up or some pioneer cheap springs with a hand job tight valve guide.
If I were to buy a head for a BBC it be anything but Air Fart Flow.
Hearing great things about BBC Trick Flow heads.