Cam choice
11-26-2015, 12:20 AM
#11
Charter Member#568
Charter Member
Get all your information together then call Bob M. Then decide where you want to get your cams.
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Straight bottoms and flat decks
Straight bottoms and flat decks
11-26-2015, 05:48 AM
#12
Gold Member
Call bob m at marine kinetics.
Give him as much ACCURATE information that you have. Be realistic in what you're doing and what you want.
Great service, great reputation and super pricing.
For what it's worth, before I ordered my valvetrain from bob, we talked to 3 cam companies and had them all spec out cams for my project. Crower, cam motion (directly) and a CM cam per bobs specs. They were all remarkably close on what they came up with.
Bob was considerably less expensive and had 55mm cam cores that were in the right duration ballpark to be ground for a relatively mild marine grind. (Not easy to find those cores)
Also, had the best number on morel lifters (my machinist is 5 city blocks from morel and couldn't beat bob's price and he works with morel often)
So, call around, but be sure to give MK a shout.
Give him as much ACCURATE information that you have. Be realistic in what you're doing and what you want.
Great service, great reputation and super pricing.
For what it's worth, before I ordered my valvetrain from bob, we talked to 3 cam companies and had them all spec out cams for my project. Crower, cam motion (directly) and a CM cam per bobs specs. They were all remarkably close on what they came up with.
Bob was considerably less expensive and had 55mm cam cores that were in the right duration ballpark to be ground for a relatively mild marine grind. (Not easy to find those cores)
Also, had the best number on morel lifters (my machinist is 5 city blocks from morel and couldn't beat bob's price and he works with morel often)
So, call around, but be sure to give MK a shout.
11-26-2015, 07:09 AM
#13
Registered
I would call Zul first and see what hydraulic roller he thinks would be best. Then I would call Bullet, Comp, Crane and Straub for recommendations, Marine Kinetics will probably be the cheapest but not the best choice.
11-26-2015, 09:12 AM
#14
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I am really happy to get all this input from you guys. Thank you. Yes the builds are I think 2005? Not sure and I can no longer seem to get in touch with ZUL directly. There is word that he isn't building anymore? Not sure. Im going to do my research using the sources mentioned - I am looking for simple, reliable and as inexpensive as possible as I still have manifolds to buy, and am on a budget like most of us. I would love to go roller but then that means block work, new pushrods (mine are some bigass ISKY custom ones as it is) and cams that are pretty expensive as well as lifters. The COMP CAMS K kits Ive looked at are springs, etc.etc. and are less than $460. Will fit right in and use my existing pushrods too. If I could get good power (600+) with a smaller hydraulic cam, and a better idle, Id do it. Another aspect of my boating is I love speed, as do we all, but my family loves the boat too and is always in it with me, so I am a chicken **** when it comes to going faster than 50-60 with them...they are everything to me
Of course, the occasional Poker Run that I may actually FINALLY get to be a part of some day would be nicer with an 80mph 39' boat lol
By the way, Happy Thanksgiving and God Bless to all! Remember your military - we loved it when we felt like we weren't forgotten
Of course, the occasional Poker Run that I may actually FINALLY get to be a part of some day would be nicer with an 80mph 39' boat lolBy the way, Happy Thanksgiving and God Bless to all! Remember your military - we loved it when we felt like we weren't forgotten
11-26-2015, 10:05 AM
#15
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Call me I will put you in touch with Zul. I talk with him every day. He's semi retired but still builds an amazing piece.
Billy 516-369-1986
Billy 516-369-1986
11-26-2015, 10:07 AM
#16
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Flat tappets are not extinct, yet. There are still many forms of racing that use them. They worked for 100 years. The modern oil's lack of zinc, is a poor excuse to not use them. There are plenty of diesel oils out there, and racing oils, that have the additives needed. Still lots of big diesels out there with flat tappets. call comp cams, and ask them what they sell more of, flat tappet or roller camshafts for BBC's annually. Even today, many guys are still installing flat tappets in their street rods. There certainly are precautions that need to be taken, to keep them alive. Have their been alot of flat tappet failures, yes. Theres a few things I see guys doing alot with flat tappets, that are an issue.
Improper break in procedures
Over springing them. They are not rollers, and do not need nor want, big spring pressures. Doing so, is a sure way to ruin them.
Crappy core materials. Today, you can get with some of the high end cam companies, and have surface hardening and other things done to the cores.
Lifters. A good stellite faced lifter is a must. Either running a lifter with an oiling groove like crowers, or, cutting a groove in the lifter bore, is a big help.
As far as performance goes, there is no doubt, that a roller has an advantage, as it can simply accelerate much faster, by design. You may want to talk to a valvetrain specialist, about using a 1.8 rocker on a flat tappet, to help with lift, and acceleration of the valve. My recommendation would be to talk with Mike Jones, from http://jonescams.com/mechanical-flat-tappet/ He's been around the block with all forms of motorsports, as well as offshore. Some pretty big name guys use him for camshaft stuff. He has the pieces you would need for success, both roller and flat tappet setups.
Rollers are great, and thats whats in my engines. However, they are no stranger to failure either. There are tons of guys out there breaking tie bars, rollers coming apart, and what not. AND, they certainly are not cheap. A quality lifter these days, is going to run you anywhere from 700-900+ a set. IF you have a HP goal, then set it, and see what you need to get there. A flat tappet might get you there, without a big chunk of your wallet missing.
Just my opinion. And thank you for your service to the country. Happy Thanksgiving.
Improper break in procedures
Over springing them. They are not rollers, and do not need nor want, big spring pressures. Doing so, is a sure way to ruin them.
Crappy core materials. Today, you can get with some of the high end cam companies, and have surface hardening and other things done to the cores.
Lifters. A good stellite faced lifter is a must. Either running a lifter with an oiling groove like crowers, or, cutting a groove in the lifter bore, is a big help.
As far as performance goes, there is no doubt, that a roller has an advantage, as it can simply accelerate much faster, by design. You may want to talk to a valvetrain specialist, about using a 1.8 rocker on a flat tappet, to help with lift, and acceleration of the valve. My recommendation would be to talk with Mike Jones, from http://jonescams.com/mechanical-flat-tappet/ He's been around the block with all forms of motorsports, as well as offshore. Some pretty big name guys use him for camshaft stuff. He has the pieces you would need for success, both roller and flat tappet setups.
Rollers are great, and thats whats in my engines. However, they are no stranger to failure either. There are tons of guys out there breaking tie bars, rollers coming apart, and what not. AND, they certainly are not cheap. A quality lifter these days, is going to run you anywhere from 700-900+ a set. IF you have a HP goal, then set it, and see what you need to get there. A flat tappet might get you there, without a big chunk of your wallet missing.
Just my opinion. And thank you for your service to the country. Happy Thanksgiving.
Last edited by MILD THUNDER; 11-26-2015 at 10:10 AM.
11-26-2015, 10:30 AM
#18
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Another recommendation for Bob Madara at Marine Kinetics that has had more satisfied customers over the past 10+ years than anybody in the history of OSO or any other boat site for that matter. Most of the qualified marine engine builders and do it yourselfers on this and other sites have and still use Bob on a daily basis.
11-26-2015, 10:51 AM
#19
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Another recommendation for Bob Madara at Marine Kinetics that has had more satisfied customers over the past 10+ years than anybody in the history of OSO or any other boat site for that matter. Most of the qualified marine engine builders and do it yourselfers on this and other sites have and still use Bob on a daily basis.
There is no doubt he has many happy customers. We have heard many times from them. He obviously has some unhappy ones as well, but unfortunately, we are not allowed to hear from them. Those threads get deleted, or anytime someone posts in a manner speaking their less than awesome experience, they get flooded with insults. And if someone he doesnt like decides to post here, even if not remotely related to camshafts, they too get flooded with insults.
I think bob has done more right then wrong to this community, but it certainly doesnt mean anything he may have done wrong, should be swept under the carpet or squashed.
There is a reason many times you will call several cam outfits, and get similar recommendations. Its because the big block chevy, has been around a long long time. There is more than one person out there, who knows how to properly camshaft them. Some know from many years of dyno testing different camshaft profiles, some know from computer simulations, and some know from copying others results.
Just because one man succeeds, does not mean all others have failed, and just because one man failed, does not mean all others have succeeded.
Ive seen bobs cams do very well on the dyno in person. I have not, had the chance to remove one of his cams, for someone elses cams back to back, to see if someone else can have done it better. However, i know of a couple who have, and the results would start wars here. Ill leave that to them to post that information if they ever choose to.
11-26-2015, 11:09 AM
#20
Banned
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Assuming by your wording, is anyone who doesnt use bob on this site, or any site, is unqualified to be working on an engine?
There is no doubt he has many happy customers. We have heard many times from them. He obviously has some unhappy ones as well, but unfortunately, we are not allowed to hear from them. Those threads get deleted, or anytime someone posts in a manner speaking their less than awesome experience, they get flooded with insults. And if someone he doesnt like decides to post here, even if not remotely related to camshafts, they too get flooded with insults.
I think bob has done more right then wrong to this community, but it certainly doesnt mean anything he may have done wrong, should be swept under the carpet or squashed.
There is a reason many times you will call several cam outfits, and get similar recommendations. Its because the big block chevy, has been around a long long time. There is more than one person out there, who knows how to properly camshaft them. Some know from many years of dyno testing different camshaft profiles, some know from computer simulations, and some know from copying others results.
Just because one man succeeds, does not mean all others have failed, and just because one man failed, does not mean all others have succeeded.
Ive seen bobs cams do very well on the dyno in person. I have not, had the chance to remove one of his cams, for someone elses cams back to back, to see if someone else can have done it better. However, i know of a couple who have, and the results would start wars here. Ill leave that to them to post that information if they ever choose to.
There is no doubt he has many happy customers. We have heard many times from them. He obviously has some unhappy ones as well, but unfortunately, we are not allowed to hear from them. Those threads get deleted, or anytime someone posts in a manner speaking their less than awesome experience, they get flooded with insults. And if someone he doesnt like decides to post here, even if not remotely related to camshafts, they too get flooded with insults.
I think bob has done more right then wrong to this community, but it certainly doesnt mean anything he may have done wrong, should be swept under the carpet or squashed.
There is a reason many times you will call several cam outfits, and get similar recommendations. Its because the big block chevy, has been around a long long time. There is more than one person out there, who knows how to properly camshaft them. Some know from many years of dyno testing different camshaft profiles, some know from computer simulations, and some know from copying others results.
Just because one man succeeds, does not mean all others have failed, and just because one man failed, does not mean all others have succeeded.
Ive seen bobs cams do very well on the dyno in person. I have not, had the chance to remove one of his cams, for someone elses cams back to back, to see if someone else can have done it better. However, i know of a couple who have, and the results would start wars here. Ill leave that to them to post that information if they ever choose to.
