Piston pic.
12-08-2015, 05:15 PM
#51
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iTrader: (3)
While what the car makers use is informative, one factor has to be considered - they absolutely do not use the same costing criteria we do. Another $20 (or even $200) for rings for us isn't an issue. Another $20 per engine for them better show another 20+ hp OR a reduction in warranty that more than offsets the cost.
Otherwise, the engineers are stuck using the cheapest ring that will get the job done.
Otherwise, the engineers are stuck using the cheapest ring that will get the job done.
Engineers working on the Hellcat Hemi, Vette engines, Copo engines, Viper engines, SVT teams, Mercury Racing, and so on, were some pretty sharp guys. IF there was a ring that lasted long, offered less oil consumption, more horspower, less emissions, they'll be using it. Do you honestly think, that IF GM went to Total seal, and said "hey, we want to offer you a contract to use your rings, in all our production vehicles (into the millions of vehicles), that they would pay the price you or I would in the summit catalog for them? Heck no. These guys aren't some redneck working out of a storage facility, with a harbor freight leakdown tester, claiming how they just chose the best rings ever, because they leaked down at 3 percent.
At the end of the day, my current hemi just had the engine replaced at 193,000 miles last week, due to a valve seat dropping. Up until that point, it didn't burn a drop of oil, a loss of power, smoke on decel, or anything like that. Whatever rings they used, at whatever price they paid, worked! That to me is what counts, and thats also what counts to them. They can't have a ring package that goes to chit by 100k miles, this isn't 1970 anymore. Cars are coming with 100k mile powertrain warrantys, and its in their best interest to use a quality part. they are not going to save a few bucks by putting in an inferior ring, that will cost them 10 times that down the road. They have to use what works.
So, my post in regards to what they are using, was to kind of show what works for them. I personally find that information, better than what I read on internet forums where guys blame ring styles for their issues, when in reality, it was nothing regarding the ring itself that failed, but their tune up, machine work, or installation methods that ultimately caused the failure.
12-08-2015, 09:37 PM
#52
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I don't put together a blower motor without coating the pistons. That stuff is Da bomb . I rebuilt a motor that a spring broke, piston hit the valve, put a big smiley in the piston. I thought oh ****, have to get new pistons, but after blasting the ceramic off, the smiley was only in the coating and slight mark on the piston. After recoating, it looked brand new. I have also noticed that the bottom of the pistons don't show any signs of burnt oil. I also used coated bearings on everything, The bearings are just a insurance thing, but I really think coating pistons helps a lot.
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12-09-2015, 06:02 AM
#54
Registered
very true,,to many dinosaur machine shops out there still.they just don't want to change w/ the times/machining processes and set up of the engine.
12-09-2015, 09:15 AM
#56
I never got around to putting an hour meter on the boat yet. GPS says 1750 miles.
Besides some old bilge/engine footage this was the last run of the year. Boat ran great!
Later I check the compression on the motor with the loose rotor, the first plug I pull has no ground strap and compression it`s 30, 60, 90, 95 on that side .. ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pedGaEyKdQ
I LOVE BOATS!
Besides some old bilge/engine footage this was the last run of the year. Boat ran great!
Later I check the compression on the motor with the loose rotor, the first plug I pull has no ground strap and compression it`s 30, 60, 90, 95 on that side .. ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pedGaEyKdQ
I LOVE BOATS!
12-09-2015, 12:04 PM
#58
Registered
iTrader: (2)
I never got around to putting an hour meter on the boat yet. GPS says 1750 miles.
Besides some old bilge/engine footage this was the last run of the year. Boat ran great!
Later I check the compression on the motor with the loose rotor, the first plug I pull has no ground strap and compression it`s 30, 60, 90, 95 on that side .. ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pedGaEyKdQ
I LOVE BOATS!
Besides some old bilge/engine footage this was the last run of the year. Boat ran great!
Later I check the compression on the motor with the loose rotor, the first plug I pull has no ground strap and compression it`s 30, 60, 90, 95 on that side .. ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pedGaEyKdQ
I LOVE BOATS!
12-09-2015, 01:37 PM
#59
Registered
I hardly think the supercharged engine in LSX engine in the COPO camaro, that the engineers are worried about saving few bucks by going with a sub par piston ring package. I'm not talking about dodge caravans or a jeep liberty. If price was a concern for the supercharged COPO, would they be using a Callies Dragonslayer crankshaft? ATI TH-400 fully built transmission? Callies Ultra H beam rods? PSI Valvesprings? Titanium Valves? Fabricated Aluminum oil pan? ATI damper? They didn't cut corners there, and certainly could have used ANY piston ring they wanted, or piston for that matter. They used a Ductile Moly ring, and a 2618 Forged piston from Mahle.
Engineers working on the Hellcat Hemi, Vette engines, Copo engines, Viper engines, SVT teams, Mercury Racing, and so on, were some pretty sharp guys. IF there was a ring that lasted long, offered less oil consumption, more horspower, less emissions, they'll be using it. Do you honestly think, that IF GM went to Total seal, and said "hey, we want to offer you a contract to use your rings, in all our production vehicles (into the millions of vehicles), that they would pay the price you or I would in the summit catalog for them? Heck no. These guys aren't some redneck working out of a storage facility, with a harbor freight leakdown tester, claiming how they just chose the best rings ever, because they leaked down at 3 percent.
At the end of the day, my current hemi just had the engine replaced at 193,000 miles last week, due to a valve seat dropping. Up until that point, it didn't burn a drop of oil, a loss of power, smoke on decel, or anything like that. Whatever rings they used, at whatever price they paid, worked! That to me is what counts, and thats also what counts to them. They can't have a ring package that goes to chit by 100k miles, this isn't 1970 anymore. Cars are coming with 100k mile powertrain warrantys, and its in their best interest to use a quality part. they are not going to save a few bucks by putting in an inferior ring, that will cost them 10 times that down the road. They have to use what works.
So, my post in regards to what they are using, was to kind of show what works for them. I personally find that information, better than what I read on internet forums where guys blame ring styles for their issues, when in reality, it was nothing regarding the ring itself that failed, but their tune up, machine work, or installation methods that ultimately caused the failure.
Engineers working on the Hellcat Hemi, Vette engines, Copo engines, Viper engines, SVT teams, Mercury Racing, and so on, were some pretty sharp guys. IF there was a ring that lasted long, offered less oil consumption, more horspower, less emissions, they'll be using it. Do you honestly think, that IF GM went to Total seal, and said "hey, we want to offer you a contract to use your rings, in all our production vehicles (into the millions of vehicles), that they would pay the price you or I would in the summit catalog for them? Heck no. These guys aren't some redneck working out of a storage facility, with a harbor freight leakdown tester, claiming how they just chose the best rings ever, because they leaked down at 3 percent.
At the end of the day, my current hemi just had the engine replaced at 193,000 miles last week, due to a valve seat dropping. Up until that point, it didn't burn a drop of oil, a loss of power, smoke on decel, or anything like that. Whatever rings they used, at whatever price they paid, worked! That to me is what counts, and thats also what counts to them. They can't have a ring package that goes to chit by 100k miles, this isn't 1970 anymore. Cars are coming with 100k mile powertrain warrantys, and its in their best interest to use a quality part. they are not going to save a few bucks by putting in an inferior ring, that will cost them 10 times that down the road. They have to use what works.
So, my post in regards to what they are using, was to kind of show what works for them. I personally find that information, better than what I read on internet forums where guys blame ring styles for their issues, when in reality, it was nothing regarding the ring itself that failed, but their tune up, machine work, or installation methods that ultimately caused the failure.
I work for a supplier to the automotive industry. What we supply includes items that go into the cars you mentioned; exactly what I can't say due to agreements we have with them. I can say all of them do in fact worry about saving $2 on each one of the high end cars. Hell, they worry about saving 2 cents. EVERY car produced, including their flagship cars, is given a massive cost analysis; we've lost contracts because the accountants overruled the engineers.
Exactly the same argument you use could be made for Mercury Racing, but they use the Bravo which many on here believe had many cost compromises in the gears and casing.
Last edited by apollard; 12-09-2015 at 01:42 PM.
