joe,i think the intake air temp will go up on a long hard run but have no data to prove that.

Dan has had the intake temp gauges in his boat, for 2 years now. They don't go up on long hard runs. .

Mike, I'd highly recommend that you measure the velocity of the falling turd and chart the amplitude of the splash back. Just staring at the loaf in the bowl won't tell you $hit! :hitfan:

thats good to know.

just to clear the air,i like gauges for monitering things but i have more than i can keep up with now and no room for any more.btw,all mine are working and in the process of getting the fuel gauges to read correctly.

Cooling principles of water and thermodynamic heat transfer. Velocity (flow), Reynolds numbers (turbulence) increase flow and you increase your cooling. I use a water flow meter many times/week.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/re...pes-d_574.html

what bowl,can,t afford one,just a big old hole in the ground under my outhouse,thats how we do it in the country. we can,t roll like the city folks.

My take away from this thread is that I need more toys.

So people like you buy them. :D

Joe, when you convert to EFI next year :evilb: you'll be able to monitor and datalog the intercooler pressure, and IAT, and program warnings based on anything being out of line. You can program a timing modifier based on IAT, and even tell the ecu to pull power if you're not paying attention to the gauges. I know some of you big blower guys aren't sold on efi yet.. But when you add up the cost of your ignition boxes, afr guages, standalone knock systems, additional monitoring gauges, etc. You can start to see the benefit, especially when it can save your engine. Not trying to hijack, I like where you're going with the testing and monitoring because how else would you know? MikeT I think it's funny that you have such a casual attitude towards monitoring critical engine components after burning up a few engines. Proper monitoring and testing probably could have saved you a bunch of $$$$.

I know I know lol, I'm putting off the inevitable !

Thats actually one of the biggest things that attracts me about going EFI, more so than just the fuel delivery part of things. The entire engine management, is really cool nowdays.

burnt one piston and it was not due to poor water flow in the innercooler,it was caused from a fuel system that was not up to the task.fact is with my setup i really don,t need the innercooler,i just like it.as far as efi,i am thinking about it,i like the holley hp deal.also,as to monitoring critical engine components,the dam boat looks like a 747 with all the gauges and i don,t know where i could put any more.

I do like the basic stuff like dan and I have. Fuel pressure switch that triggers and alarm/led light, when fuel psi falls below 4psi. Same thing for the oil pressure. 18psi it triggers the alarm, water temp at 195, triggers the alarm..it is hard to monitor all the gauges constantly when running, especially in rough water .

Was looking at whipples big boy cooler today, it has twin -20 AN outlets and inlets. A friend saw this thread today, and said he had twin -20 inlets and outlets on his turbo marine engine. Intake temps were 90 degrees, with 27lbs of boost! I also remember seeing a custom procharged setup in a cat, that had some monster intercoolers and monster water lines feeding it. Boat runs very well!

Granted, waaaay different than what I have. But still, in certain scenerios, there is certainly a need for some serious water flow

i could not agree more.if i was to turn up the boost i would ditch the super chiller and go with a monster cooler that could flow all the water you can throw at it.i did a leak down test yesterday on the port engine and did not like the results,need a good valve job and going to rering it.also found a leaking cmi header on cyl number 7.yes i could have ran it being a little down on power but that,s not how i roll.engine is apart and going for cylinder honing tomorrow along with a valve job.going to pressure test headers,calling cmi to check on having them find&fix the leak.driving joe,s boat last week put a fire under my azz to get going on mine.

The end goal is to ensure that the water flow is turbulent and not laminar. If it is in laminar flow, there where will be a boundary layer of water on the insides of the tubes and it acts like insulation, which inhibits heat transfer.

For what it's worth, we run two -12's in and a single -16 out on ours. Ours requires about 25gpm. Anything below 20gpm and it starts loosing efficiency fast, and anything above 25gpm doesn't gain you a whole lot.

One common rigging problem I have seen (even from some well known people), is that they run the water the wrong way through the core. You always want the coldest water through the bottom (pass #1) and the hottest at the top (pass #2, or however many passes the core has). This keeps the greatest ΔT when the air/fuel exit the core.

Thank you for that information!

Jason has repaired a bunch of stellings headers. He fixed a couple leaks for me few years back on mine

i forgot about jason,i will give him a call.

what do you pick up the water with&what size hose from pickup to strainer?

alex,i really don,t care what you think.you have always had some smart azz comments on a lot of my posts.way back a long time ago you claimed you fixed something that i screwed up but i did nothing more than sell a blower and a mechanical injector to the guy who wanted to convert it to efi.when i sent you a pm you blew it off and did not reply buy now again you feel the need to take a shot at me.funny thing is that i told him to call you for the efi conversion,that was my mistake.my father told me when i was a young kid that if you have nothing good to say then say nothing.for that reason i have nothing more to say to you sir.

Working in the pump industry and dealing with questions of flow rates and friction loss i can tell you guys that there are way too many variables in every single application that there is no "standard" in just about ANY case....you can have two nearly identical setups and have different flow rates and pressures. On boats it gets crazy trying to determine the flow rates when you don't know how deep the pickup is in the water.....or for that matter what type of pickup it actually it...clam shell, a cut tube, a NACA duct grafted in to the bottom....hell even the rocker in the hulls bottom changes flow rates!!! Then you get into the pipe/tubing...is it smooth walled, is it reinforced...then we get into fittings....are they hard 90's or smooth bend 90*....then you have "T" fittings, valves etc....then you have sea strainers and how much they can flow...and pray they are not clogged with anything!

The one thing reading MILDS post about them "requiring" 15-20psi at the cooler....first thing that came to my mind is if the boat cant go fast enough to ram enough water through the system to generate the 15-20 psi.... and the owner then restricts the outlets of the chiller to get the "required" 15-20psi, they have in fact just cut the flow rate of the liquid going through the chiller and will it still cool properly??? And i also wonder what kind of IAT's will result by doing this?

When it comes down to it....someone's investing thousands into a blower motor, they should not be overlooking buying a few extra $50 gauges to make sure your investment is operating properly! ;)

I had a flow curve of the mercruiser seawater pump we tested here about 13 some odd years ago i'm going to try and find...if not i think we may need to re-test one again! :D but i do remember it was able to generate almost 50psi when we started to dead head the pump

Wally mentions a good point about fittings. I recently saw some data on a forged 90* fitting, vs a full flow 90* fitting. I always knew full flow 90s flowed better, but the difference was way more than i expected!

Yep, when we speck our pumps for customers we always add a min of 2' of head height restriction per fitting in the system....(most of the time these rocket scientists don't know what their system setup is exactly anyway so we just cover out butts) But if you even take a full flow 1" valve and compare it to any standard off the shelf valve and you will be shocked...you would think that a 1" valve is going to have a true 1" flow through as the pipe your connecting to will have an ID of 1.049 on a sched 40 pvc or a .957 on a HD pipe.....but the valves i've seen can be as small as .750!! And that right there is a choking point!

I think I remember you doing that on Slowwake, and remember saving it. But that's many computers ago. If you could find that info again alot of us would love you for it ! LOL. How many opportunities would any of us be able to test it ourselves ? Near none.

I remember at the same time, this is a definite, I pegged 60psi water psi with a Bravo sea water pump on the dyno. That ended being one of a number of small disasters. LOL.

I agree.

Easy way to remember it, is that it flows off psi differential..just like air. Imagine if our intake ports had to deal with 90* angles. Ouch !

Mentioned this on another site, and it's a funny but true , I hand ported (see, funny) my stream last night.:readinghelp::lolhit: It was having some flow issues with our recent rain. A few obstructions formed (collected) at some 90's and near 90's. Straightened that out and Flow is way up now...water back up is not an issue anymore.

Well i cant find it as we too have changed computers a few times as well....but here's a peek at my test lab
1100 gall water tank
1&3 phase power supply we can vary voltage and frequency
and sensors that can read motor rpm, and motor torque, GPM, psi/head height, temps of motor and water exiting if need be and efficiency when we graph it out if need be

Ran it on dyno. Only was able to hook up a garden hose to the core due to time constaints and what we had on hand. Ran 5/8 hose in, 5/8 hose out with 5psi in core. Inlet water temp was about 66 degrees. Intake temps with blower at 1:1 making 6psi, were about 95 degrees at 6000rpm. Ran blower at 10% over, making 8psi, intake temps went to about 105 at 6000rpm. 420 roots B&M blower.

what are the hp&torque numbers?disregard,i just looked at the other thread.

it made 818hp and around 700ft lbs.

Hard to compare to my old setup though I think. Running sea pump, alternator, and 1 7/8 headers thru 4" tails, vs 2.25 headers pretty much no tailpipes.

I did have to add a bunch of fuel to get the AFR's where I wanted them. Last time it made 800HP with 82/92 jets and 7lbs boost. This time, it made the power, with 96/100 jets in the same carbs and 8lbs. I did drop from 9:1 to 8:1 static as well.

I guess we will have to see what the speedo says when I get them back in to see if I gained anything.

i wish you would have called me,i would like to check out retter,s shop.

i don.t think your headers vs dyno headers would make much difference.sea pump& alt will eat a little but again,not much.i do believe the boat will pick up a mile or two top speed.

It was kind of a last minute thing, we didn't know till pretty much thurs night if we were gonna do it this weekend or not. :(

Was talking to dave about that last night, he thinks there could be a pretty decent power loss from his 2.25 open dyno headers to my 1 7/8 headers with long tailpipes that have baffles in them.

I rememeber kevin gaining a significant amount of power just by removing the baffles in his cmi tractor pipe tail extensions .

I know that we're not talking about the same apples, but when I pulled the baffles out of my Corsas it ran like an entirely different boat for the better.

i did not know you had any baffel,s in your tail pipes,that would make some difference.how long are your tailpipes?i thought they were short with the long stellings headers.i may be wrong but i think your headers flow better than most marine headers and would work well with a smaller inch engine.

Many of hundreds of years ago, and I've talked about this in the past, what got me to critique exhausts (car and boat and etc) was I had a car that took 8 more jet sizes larger at the track when the exhaust was dropped and collector extensions bolted on. Perfect tune was done to both - exhaust on and exhaust off.

As the years went on (not many) as I became focused on this I found the two biggest reasons for why jet changes out of the 'ordinary' was:

#1: Exhaust change
#2: Cylinder head exhaust port change (either from porting or change of cylinder heads)
#3: Camshaft overlap change either by LSA or extra exhaust duration...or of course both

Yes, the above can effects jetting more than cid change, compression change, and etc. if the exhaust is that f*ked up.

So, wanna know how much power changed in that 454 above that took an extra 8 jet sizes made with dropping the exhaust and adding collector changes made ? How about almost 80hp ! Yup, no schit ! Was a healthy, but no means crazy, approx 500hp 454.

Anyway, baffles in the exhaust can kill the airflow thru the engine enough that it effects the carburetors greatly and large jet changes need to be made.

Okay, I have been to dynos many times testing parts I've made for customers and for helping others and some for myself. When ever I would hear the dyno operator say " Wow ! What a great engine, it is very efficient and not using much fuel !" I'd fall over and know exactly what we where dealing with - something limiting the exhaust - be it wrong exhaust lobe, bad exhaust port, pooched exhaust system...something with the exhausting of the engine would almost always be the issue.

Edit in: Many times at the track (few on the water) I have proved this also with cars / boats doing tuning. One boat I was tuning on the water for a chunk of the day. I unbolted the screw type baffles, boat responded with another mile an hr or so, went back to the carburetor, and another 4# et sizes larger it had gained another 3mph total. Best tune with baffles vs best tune without the baffles. edit done.

I actually coined a personal term from this "Drink-a-bility." If an engine is not using the fuel it should be using, and it has okay power or lower than it should, it has "No drink-a-ability."

I'm glad that you. MT, reported this on your engine..as it can be discussed , because frankly, not many report or even worse, don't even now this is happening on their engine.

On a side note and related, someone mentioned Corsa - yes, their flat round plate used as a baffle, is an exhaust (and power) killer. I feel this is why many of these plates work their way loose. Just too blunt at blocking exhaust flow, no aerodynamics too it at all, and with all the pulsing going on in front of it.

My tails are nearly 4ft long. They are 4.5" OD, with 4" ID inner pipe, then have waffle style baffles in them.

The stellings "green" headers, were used on the 575HP 540 Mercury engine back in the day. While they are a good header, they were not designed for 800+hp forced induction engines.

If you go to CMI"s website, anything over 750HP forced induction, they recommend their Big Tube headers.

Borowski's dyno headers are 2.25 primary tube, and dump into a 5 or 6" pipe. I'd like to think thats a little less restrictive, than 1 7/8 ID primarys , 4" id tails with baffling, hooked to a series of tubing with water dumping into them running the exhaust wet. Enough to make a difference, I don't know how much if any, I havent tried it back to back.

Either way, comparing power from a dyno using completely different exhaust, correcting to air temp of 60* and a higher baro, than one thats correcting to 77* and lower baro, running accessories vs not running accessories, and some other variables, its not really apples to apples. I more or less wanted to run it on a dyno where the engine is going to be in the state that it will be going into the boat, both for tuning purposes, and ease of rigging. Now all I have to do is bolt my transmission on, and drop it in. My exhaust is on, bellhousings, flywheels, dampers, rear plates etc. Whether or not I gained power, should be told when I get it in the boat. I more or less did some changes to the recipe , due to the fact the heads I had were jacked up and in need of work, added intercoolers for a little safety margin, and replaced rockers with new ones and added stud girdles. I'm happy that I made around the same power as last time, with a full point less compression, my exhaust system, running the sea pump and alternator on it. I picked up 57HP going from 6psi to 8psi, if I had another pulley, I'm pretty sure I could have approached the 850-875hp range from a 468, but didn't have any more pulley options, and think I'm gonna keep it around 7-8psi and not push the envelope too hard.

joe,you have a combination making more power than before with a full point less compression and with a very safe tune up.i would consider that a win.

Turn it up! It's not our money :D