I was just mentioning it, as many read these kind of threads, and think runner volume is the deal maker, or deal breaker, on a build, and it simply isnt that cut and dry. I was not aware of your cylinder head backround, just going off what I read from posts. I was assuming by your posts you were insinuating that since the heads have been opened up from 310 to 320cc, it should have some effect on the build result/design.

Interesting transition though. We have moved on from a dual plane intaked 565, to tunnel ram setup! I like it . :)

I get it. I kinda generalized my post with who was posting and pretty much figured you knew apprx where my flow numbers would be. The heads aren't really my first choice but already have them. regardless the end result is the ports end up with a shape of their own. Not round, not rectangular, not square, I was testing the raised floors back in valakos epoxy days. 1988/89. Much improved since then. I really did wanna keep it simple with single plane and Dom but won't be the first time I changed a build. Originally I was going to go with oval port afr 300's. To this day they spark my interest on a larger CI build. If I end up with an honest 700-725 plus at 5,700 I will be content. :ernaehrung004:

Raised Port Oval 24*

BP BB-3 XTRA O 332
(CNC Ported/
50° Valve Job)
2.300 Intake
153
231
300
354
396
424
425
428
1.880 Exhaust
130
177
239
278
284
290
295
297

Your heads will indeed be 320’s after Jim does his port work to them. As you also know this will include welding the floors and modifying the runner shape and when all is said and done the intake will be 320 as you have stated.

Your heads will flow the same as mine and if Jim didn't give you the flow numbers here are the numbers from my Valako Pro 1’s.

.20 149/130
.30 225/171
.40 295/206
.50 348/256
.60 380/286
.70 394/300

Your heads will easily support the power you are going to make and are with within a few CFM’s of the AFR’s thought the entire range. I agree it would have been interesting to see what the AFR’s would have been capable of, but I doubt they would have made any additional power.

So did I read it right- are you going to go with tunnel rams on your new engines?

That head works very well with a tunnel ram on a 540 with a pair of Dominators. 850hp @ 6300. This is with a .800 lift solid roller. Single plane intake same cam 800hp. And lastly with a much smaller hydraulic roller and 4150 carb 750hp @6300 rpm 540 cu in.

I'll throw this out there also when you spend $4000 + on a fully cnc'd heads from AFR or Brodix you end up with a set of heads with a crap valve job on them. Brodix's valve job a little worse than AFR's.

In case anyone is ever interested, HVH has a raised oval port Brodix head that is around 300-305cc's.

I have the flow #'s somewhere, but in meantime , here is a pic. You can see how far the runners are raised.

http://image.superchevy.com/f/100889...ntake_port.jpg

Compared to normal oval port location

http://www.brodix.com/wp-content/gal...b-o-intake.jpg

I would guess those numbers are flowed without a pipe on the exhaust too? It be interesting to see the numbers on the afr, flowed without a pipe on the same bench.

Yes Joe, that would be correct- no pipe. I would agree, I would also be interested to see how the 300 AFR's flow on Jim's bench. Getrdunn- has Jim ever flowed the AFR?

No believe it or not he hasn't. Talked with him this morning. He's gonna get back with me today and get some other heads coming. We had a lengthy conversation but interesting to say the least.

So are you going to be using something other than the Pro 1's?

Looking that way. If that's the case I will just sell my fresh long blocks complete.

It's really kind of amazing how different go fast engine builders/speed shops can actually be over the same cubic inch build designed for the same application. And I'm just talking only two shops. Both very reputable yet so different with combos. kinda like trying to improve your golf swing and seeing multiple pros to get lessons. Always best to stick with one. I was shocked at what one shop said for combo. It only came up because their doing my machine work, boring etc.

Turbo Honda ? LOL.

No, 86 dodge omni glh turbos. Had to buy one of from a buddy one drunkin night after I parked it azz deep into the woods on a wicked 90 deg turn on a winding road. Brought it in a little hot. And SB I have a feeling you know how it happened given I was not a fwd yuppie. Lol

Another vote for the tunnel ram!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...e/DSC01815.jpg

Those aren't your new 310's on the bench?

Is that yours?

No, that's Jim Valako’s 565. We were heading to the dyno a few years ago. Mine is the red 454 on the right side.

No mine are currently on my 496's. Pretty sure we're gonna go the profiler route with edelbrock intake and single dominator. Kind of along the lines like black baja mentioned. Go a little larger up top and build funnel effect. My minds been flip flopping around with these builds but not being rushed is working into my favor for once. Who knows though next week it migh be dish Pistons and blowers. Lol. Ultimately I'd prefer to keep them NA and rather simple but stout.

Figured I'd jump start this thread - any progress on the build? I'd love to hear how it turns out.

I am just about to tear into my 548, for a rebuild with a top end from Bob - AFR 325's and 680-700hp at 5,800-5,900. Once I got over the budget woes of dumping more $$ into a 35 year old boat, I decided to tunnel ram it as well - plenty of room with my hatch scoop.

4-5 years ago I set up my 64 Vette with one, and after a nice little learning curve, got it dialed right in. It's only a little 355ci (also with AFR's), so I stayed small on the tunnel (plenum and runners), and changed almost everything in a pair of little 450's, and it runs like a raped ape - Power everywhere, pulls hard from 3,500 to 7,000 rpm, and with crisp neck snapping throttle response - everyone assumes it's a big block when they see/hear it run. So now I'm friggen hooked on TR's - they flat out work!

Carbs will be custom 750's (flow like 850's), and I think I have settled on the Edelbrock Victor Ram 2-R. I'm a little worried the runner openings might be a hair large at the plenum, as well as the plenum itself being large as well, but I like the look of it better than the only real smaller choice - the Weiand Hi-Ram (1985) - plus I figured the eddy is a newer design with more taper to the runners, so maybe it will be ok? What kills me is I have a tall deck, and will have to run spacers (the block rails are already drilled for pinning them in) - all the new tall deck tunnels, like profiler, eddy, or dart, are huge inside, with huge runners, and are really meant for cubes larger than mine and spinning more rpm - naturally Wilson says they can cook me up one to work, but that price really hurts .

This build is a tried and true Bob M combo, except I will be adding the TR, so it will be interesting to see how it turns out on a dyno.

Hang Time- it'd be cool if you could dyno with a decent single plane and big carb then try the tunnel ram and compare them. Any chance? Hell, if you're lucky you might find you don't need the tunnel ram to hit the numbers.

I have no doubt my current current 1050, atop a victor 454R would get me the numbers, since Bob has done a lot of them, but I'm scratching an itch here with the TR. Always wanted to do an 871 for 800hp on this boat, but budget and reliability precluded it. I have found I'm not willing to live with the shorter life of an 871 motor, and running the Chesapeake bay how I like to run only netted me 430 hours out of my Konrad drive with just under 600hp. So the NA 700hp route fits my situation. Doing all my own work has to be rewarded, and a TR will put a big smile on my face every time I lift the hatch �� - plus the room is already there with the scoop, which I could never bring myself to remove.

I'm sure the TR will add power on the dyno if I get it right, but not counting on it in the boat without full length headers - I have SM gen III's - figure at least I won't loose anything. But yea, having the single setup ready for the dyno is a good idea. 

I have a 548 with afr 305 heads and Bob's cams that hit 705 on the dyno with a 454R and 4500. I'd love to see what difference a tunnel ram would be. Like you I really don't want to go with a blower for a couple reasons.

We made 910hp @6300 on a 588. Edelbrock tunnel ram with 2 1050's. Dart 355cnc heads.
Made 800hp @6300 on a 540. Dart single plane+ Dominator Brodix BB3 332 cnc heads. Swapped to a smaller cam motor lost 20hp on Dyno but picked up low end torque which is normal. Swapped Dart intake for Edelbrock tunnel ram 2 1050's made 850hp with the smaller came and even more torque all the way through.


Both the intakes used were the older Edelbrocks which has a much smaller entry into the runner than the new intake. The entry on the old intake and the new intake isn't optimal for making big power its to small as well as the runner length everything is two small for these kinds of motors. However, they always work better and make more power than a Single plane intake.

What's the downside? How'd they idle and shift?

Shift and idle like a boat motor should. This is with much bigger cams than you guys are running.

Nice results on that 540! (and the 588). I assume you mean the old Victor Ram 2r's? That seems to be the power levels, and above of course, where the NEW victor ram intake, along with the dart and profiler, really works. Guys on asphalt then go turn that same 540ci to 8,000 rpm for 1000+hp etc, which is a good clue that those intakes are too large for the sub 6,000 rpm 540 crowd, which is why I choose the 35 year old victor ram 2R - that was designed when smaller cubed motors were more prevalent. The fact that the older ram did so well at your power level backs up my concerns that it's on the large size for my needs, at less rpm and only 700ish hp - but maybe not - only one way to find out.

Another problem seems to be finding a used one that has not had the runners gasket matched up to 2.45x1.72 or larger - I need them uncut to match up with the non-CNC'd AFR 325 ports (AFR's website even says don't gasket match the intake for these heads). I assume the reason for using the uncut 325's at this power level is that they flow at the same velocity as the CNC'd smaller port heads, yet cost less - pretty smart move I thought (Bob, not me). I'll probably have to go new on the intake, but i've got plenty of time to look.

I was not aware AFR made an as cast, 335cc runner head? I thought the 335cc head, was a cnc ported version, of the 325cc "as cast" head.

That seems to be the case. Every other head is available with cnc. So a 305 can be as cast or cnc, then then 315 only comes one way. Then the 325 is available as cast or cnc, the 335 is not, etc. Every other size seems to be the cnc'd version of the size below it. So a 335 would be a cnc'd 325 I think.

The way ive understood it, is the 305 is an as cast head, offered with a partial cnc port, which is basically a cnc chamber.

The 315, is a fully cnc ported version, of the 305 casting.

The 325cc head, is avail as cast, or as cast with cnc chamber.

The 335cc,is a full cnc ported version of the 325 casting.

That is exactly correct!

Typo - they are 325

The 588 with the Dart 355 head was way down on power. Should have been closer to the 950-975 range. the intake and the cam were not optimal. Still not a bad motor but when you buy used parts that aren't the proper fit for the combination you get what you get.