You sure your not confusing him with CPR class??

or..... like Brian Orlandi for the longest time was being told the issues were everything BUT Bob's combo, so... if he can convince Orlandi he was the issue, how many others would talk to Bob and be swayed into thinking the builder was the issue.... never Bob.. can't be.... I was into my builds too far when things started coming out, had to go with it as the cash was not there to start over, you guys see where that got me... I am upset but very glad I found it now and Joe made me look...

Can't fight now we pretty much know that all the fighting was Bobs fault lol

really makes you think he's a builder....
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...HTzG0LZy17UMSA

Well unfortunately for you , but this has been an extremely informative thread , and has gotten folks back on the same page! Maybe we should all toss a few bucks your way just because!:cool-smiley-011:

Ya be thankful you caught it now cause I have a strong feeling you wanted to be talked into cruising through another season or so and wait til refresh time to go after the extra power left on table. I simple dial indicator can be pretty useful finding valvetrain issues also. Then again many applications can be more time consuming to pull valve covers than intakes. No lifter valley screens also made very quick to identify lobe issues without pulling rockers and lifters.

Lol yaaaa well it sucks, it's part of the hobby... I spent a lot, learned a lot, still boated a lot, the whole Tim in the back of my mind I waited for explosions, guys that hated me don't as much now, I can be a jerk and we all can, emotions take a toll at times especially when you spend 35,000.00 on engines that you pay CASH for... And have a wife just say whatever... And not care, but other things get set aside for a while like the furniture I just got her. The reason a say that is some guys just say fix it, change it or whatever but at the end of the day it's my money that went out and has to go out AGAIN, so yes that part gets old. I made some good friends and Joe and I because just that, and helped a lot. I proved can build engines in the end, and that I made some small mistakes and learned, we all learned many things even during the pizzing matches... At the end of they day none of us wish my nightmare on anyone and I am at least glad it's showing others "hey I might wanna rethink my build" before its to late, that makes it worth it to me... Even at my expense!

I will make this right, I know it's gonna be good in the end as I have things in the right persons hands now, wish some of the guys that helped me here were local to come hang out while we do this... Maybe I will see 74 mph next year lol

I hear that! On a good note... Another year to not worry about winterizing hahaha

Think of all the other non marine shorter duration higher lift combos out there. This could go well beyond this forum.

Yes it is I had it done.

Gonna be alot of cams getting punted just like baxter did https://youtu.be/bxFASFPhegg

Tim, I may be walking in your foot steps. my motors were new when I bought them in a older boat, owner died and I bought the package from wife. I thought they were new 502's and I ran them about 65 hours they ran very good so when I pulled them to put into a cigarette I bought without motors I thought I would make them better, that's when I called MK. turns out when I pulled them apart they were 540's. the heads I took off were Merlin 043c Grumpy Jenkins and the number on the cams read ZHR-296-2S-12-IG I may have spent a lot of money to be not much better than where I started? Damn an education costs a lot of money! now my motors are almost complete, a time when there should be happiness but after reading 100 pages of post I am kind of pissed.

Jsand117 heres the cams you had ?

http://crane.carshopinc.com/product_...d/76046/139021

Did you buy heads from bob too?

Bck has dyno time on his engines. Wonder if yanking the distributor and snaking in a bore scope to check the lobes out would be a good idea at this point for guys who have some run time on the cams. Most heads you can do it thru the valve cover, but afrs dont have much room to do that.

The only real good outcome after over 100 pages is your guaranteed to be much more educated on valvetrain stability, good proven grinds, shelf cams, etc. I wouldn't run the new ones. Call Bob and see what he'll do for you if you wipe some lobes out and or potentially something much worse. You put trust in a so called expert. Your not alone.

Probably gonna be a lot of that going on. Bore scope is a must in the tool box. Wonder how many hours when tims started to show signs?

How much should we bet that he hears

"You'll be fine. Dont believe these internet morons, gravel haulers , troublemakers , googlers" . Then he'll get stats thrown at him, stating how he has 14,000 cams in the field, and a .007 % comeback rate. And how these cams that have shown issues, are from builder errors .

yes that is the cam I took out, was not sure exactly what it was. I did get the heads from MK. maybe I am lucky the shop that is putting my motors together was a little busy with end of the year race car motors that needed attention for the last few big shows and has yet to put my top ends on. at this point I don't know what to do? are the heads even assembled with the right parts? I trusted the knowledge of MK who pointed me in what I thought was the right direction. this sucks, I wanted to get to dyno in a few weeks.

This whole rise of a custom cam guru, him and his converts attacking anyone who questioned him or when people had issues and then the fall reminds me a lot of what happend in the SBF scene with Jay Allen/Camshaft Innovations.

Like this!!???

[ATTACH=CONFIG]559970[/ATTACH]

you better ask that shop if they took the ready to bolt on and go heads apart and checked them out, I got my azz handed to me for exposing .0001 guises and Bobs cheerleaders and Bob said we were doing it wrong because he has hundreds of heads with no issues...then when we fouind one of my sets of heads to have SOLID ROLLER springs that I ran for 2 hours on Hydraulics, I was told "any builder knows to take them apart and redo them" well if that's the case why is he selling READY TO GO FOR MARINE USE HEADS???? nothing like spending 2800 a set for marine ready so I can take them apart and spend another 500+ a set doing the work they neded to be marine ready....

Has any of you guys encountered the mind boggling Rollmaster/Bob cam timing chain issue? I hope you guys checked runout and how the cam spins by installing chain gear on CAM ONLY and spin by hand, not using chain and spin with crankshaft you may not notice it, I had to chamfer the inside edge of both retainers to clear the Torrington bearing.... if you did not check it you better... I told Bob about it and he never really responded... Mike T had the issue also and he and I talked at the time at 12AM to get the fix fr me to move forward....

Wonder who Bob informed of that issue???

I believe that was more of a cam nose machining issue wasn't it? Where the cam was machined for the retaining plate?

I used Rollmaster timing set, but the Mark IV ones, that do not use the retaining plate. From my independent research, they seem like a great timing set. The iwis chain is a quality piece they come with

No it was because of the cam retainer in a gen6, the bearing hits. The retainer, won't have the issue on a markIV block, I loved the quality of the timing set and tension on the chain was great. I bet if look back 2 years on our FB messenger I can find pics, I'm sure I sent them to you,

Looks like you, Mike tkach, budman, amd others had the issue,
. They also had bobs cams. I have not heard of this using a regular gen 6 cam from anyone else.

Budman, in this thread, tried a different gen 6 cam, and found more clearance. Wonder if the issue is because bob used all these 8.1L cam cores on reg bbc gen 6 setups? Was there a slight difference in the machining of the nose between those series of engines? Of he stated how he called bob, and bob didnt think he had an issue. Im pretty sure bob prob had recieved many calls on that topic , and dam well knew about the issue and why there was one.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...o-you-set.html

Well, after half hour of going back on our messages I found it.... Uploaded video we sent mike T on the roll master... Bob had zero answer of course..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VlFJxR2c-Yc

Hey Tim, I just had a thought this morning and it might be worth looking into. B4 you purchase new cams. It would be nice to see if anyone has done any testing with LS vs non LS firing order with a center rise manifold such as yours... If you think about how the double swap firing order would pull on the runner with the manifold such as yours I would think the exhaust scavenging would totally suck. Did you happen to notice any carbon tracking in the intake runners of the heads or into the intake itself. I was burning some brain cells this morning and have to say with the first cam I got from Bob I had Carbon tracking 2-3"s up into the intake with that combo... This was with Geniii manifolds. Next go round with that setup I added 20*+ duration normal firing order bigger intake bigger carb and had no carbon tracking anywhere in the intake track whatsoever. And that motor idled much better. 500rpms in and out of gear...

I will have to look my buddy has that set of heads now...

Hers a pic of where the timing chain gear rubs on retainer, if not clearances your gonna have issues..

[ATTACH=CONFIG]559971[/ATTACH]

What i find interesting is, in the thread I linked, budman clearly stated he called bob about the cam nose/retainer fitment issue . Explained it, and said that bob didnt think it was a problem. That was 2013.

Then you guys had the issue. Let me guess, bob acted like he had never heard of that before ?

Just like when orlandi found the issues with his valve seats and other various valvetrain issues. Him and bob were friends . When the topic came up, bob acted like he had never heard of such a thing. After brian had talked to a few other builders, who also presented these issues to bob, he pieced the puzzle together. Bob very well knew about the issues these builders were having, and never shared it with brian, his good customer and friend. Cost brian tens of thousands of dollars.

Engine development at its finest.

Exactly and I searched emails... With the heading "timing chain fix" and I don't see anything about him saying anything at all, trying to dig, seems at least with me... Anything questionable was never put in writing... Hmmmm

I installed a Rollmaster set on one of my engines this spring. (Not purchased from MK) with the retainer in place i measured the amount of the cam nose exposed in relation to the depth of the roller brg and gear to seat properly on the gear without crushng into the retainer, and it worked out just fine, could be the nose on MK cams are not quite to spec?? IDK. I left the other engine the way it was on purpose do a visual inspection this coming spring when I make some other upgades to the engines! I will report back then.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]559973[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]559972[/ATTACH]

Abones , i wonder if it has something to do with bob selling the 8.1L cam cores for every application. I wonder if something is different with them, ever so slightly, in how the nose is machined

At this point in the investigation it seems likely that indeed is the case!! I think if there are more incidents like Tim and Budman show up that might seal that deal!!

Unjust worry how many guys install and don't check runout to know? It can spin but it's right so if you don't check runout and you don't spin can hear only when installed you would never catch it, I was more thorough on my builds then people know

One thing I've noticed with the ls firing order is it seems to be considerably more prone to reversion then the conventional firing order even with mild duration. I always assumed that the intake reversion from the Bob cams was probably a combination of the stupid exhaust timing events and possibly instability in the intake valve causing it to bounce on the seat. On engines with a bit of time on them you would start to see the heat and even more carbon tracking on the intake seat. I saw a couple that ended up loosing intake seal completely and looked like they werent far away from getting torched.

The good Cloyes timing sets come with the iwis chain too.

These are all issues that could have and should have easily been corrected. If you are selling a volume of parts like he was and there is a trend of issues I simple phone call to the Manufacturing side little adjustment in machining and the problem goes away. I remember a phone conversation to a well known Marine Engine builder I had some years ago. He explained to me the reason he used Bullet for his cams was they had CNC'd their cams and finished them off on a Cam grinder to get a better finish on the lobes and journals. I had a brief conversation with Bob about this and was assured the CNC finish with Cam Motions state of the art CNC was fine and finishing on a grinder was a waiste of time. Well I can tell you this. I have a Bullet cam with about 50hrs on it and there is know lifter tracking on any of the lobes the lobes are very shiny and almost have a mirror finish on them. The $700 Cam Motion/MK cam I have has track marks on the lobes after I spun the cam in the block by hand a dozen times with checker spring. So what's the deal? The finish on the CNC only cam look like crap. It looks like someone took a wire wheel to the lobes and journals on the cam. Differently far from a mirror like finish and it's kind of depressing when I think that I paid $700 for this piece of crap. I have some Sneider, Erson and a cast Comp Cam and none of these cams have such a poor finish on the. I wonder what would happen if you put a crankshaft in a motor that had a finish like this. Would it eat the bearings out of the motor? I'm sure if a CNC'd finish was acceptable on a Crankshaft that we would all have poorly finished dull looking journal cranks going in our engines. I was always told the more mirror like the finish on the crank the better. For that reason we would have our cranks sent out and wait weeks for them to come back because the finish we would get from the grinder two states away was so much better. And this is a part of the motor that has an oil wedge and no metal to metal contact. So, now we get back to the cam and lifter there is no oil wedge just splash oiling and direct metal to metal contact with lots of spring force being exherted but yet it's acceptable to have a sh!t finish hmmm. Sounds like a crock of sh!t to me.

So, it sounds like you have moved to tried and true Lunati Cams. Are you going with standard or LS firing order?

Calling RMBUILDER....

He's not gonna answer. Has caller ID. Need to three way with an out of your state number...