This is an epidemic in the marine field, and for thte life of me I don't understand how it continues to flouish! NOW we all now that there are many very honest, compitant and fair, engine builders out there Not to discredit ANY of them!! but I see stuff that has been done to peoples boat I know that make me wonder how in the He$$ can someone get away with this??? so the bad thing is a lot of good potentcial boaters get srcewed so bad they can't/or don't want to to go boating any longer ! AND that is the REAL Crime IMHO

I live next to a state (or maybe county) park that is right on the trail system. I can leave the driveway and do hundreds of miles. There is an abandoned rail bed along side the park that they have been talking of converting to a trail also

I ride from my house too. Just need snow. Lol.

Some of the problem is that there might be a disagreement on who those reputable builders are. I guarantee many will disagree with my opinion on "bad" builder. Frick has had a bad experience with a "good" builder. Maybe I just have bad luck or am to critical when my stuff doesn't work or looks like crap etc. but of the many people who've actually put tools on my boats or parts I have yet to meet one that I will do business with again.

The only builder that you mentioned, that i have heard of , besides eickert, is eddie young.

We have discussed in specifics here about bob madera, what was the poor work that eddie did ? Specifically. Like poor rigging, the engines, etc ?

I seen another engine recently dynoed at Mcquillens. Waste of time and money. Refused to run customers ignition, dyno curve was a disaster, numbers were a mess, no data, and so on.

Really, where. Cause I'd like to meet them....

^^^I know of a third from about 8yrs ago. Exact same scenario.^^^

It sucks reading these things but they happen.... It's happen to me as well... But I did find really good people to work with over the years and can/will still recommend them.

As for me, I used to be a boat mechanic in another life. But that was 16 1/2 years ago now... After changing jobs/career I continued to do all of my own work on my Scarab which I sold in 2004. I bought the Apache and entrusted a "friend" who I worked with for years as a mechanic who had his own business. I was in my mid 20's, too busy with life and a career plus getting ready to get married. I entrusted him to do the job because I knew him both as a friend and professional. I told him what I wanted but he didn't agree and insisted on doing it his way. But having much more experience then me, I allowed him to take the lead.

Six months later, no engines... At that point I began traveling to his shop after work to help him finish the project. It also became aparent to me at that point maybe he had some "life issues". We finally finish the project and it's a month before my wedding. The engine takes a sh!t on the dyno (lost a lifter). My "friend" disappears and then I meet Jeff Cropper (JC Performance) here on OSO and he fixed my problems and I went boating for several years thereafter. I dropped the fixed engine in the boat a week before my wedding... You wanna talk about stress!

Fast forward a few years later and it was time to refresh the Apache's engines so I just said f'it and did it myself, just like I used to do years back. Two years ago and a few hundred hours later, both engines in the Apache needed total rebuilds with new blocks. I subbed out the machine work and did all the assembly and rigging myself. In addition, I have been doing all my drive work myself for almost as long as I was a mechanic.

To date, I'm doing all my own work and it seems now that I'm doing everyone else's work because they see me boating every single weekend and my sh!t doesn't blow up. It has sort of turned into a side-business at this point and helps feed my boating habit in tough times.

So it seems that since my start as a boat mechanic in 1995 @ $10hr has come full circle many many years later to working on friggin boats for people again....

At the end of the day.... I'm f#cking tired...grey haired, balding...divorced....two beautiful girls..dating...happy...and boating as much as I possibly can! Live is too short fellas!

Hutter is a known builder. One of his top guys (at the time) was able to do side work in the open. His name was Ken Matthews. The build did not go through the Hutter shop. I want to be clear on that. From there the engines went to Mcquillen whom you've heard of to be dynod and tuned. After that they went to Young to be have all the engine accessories installed, all engine wiring done from scratch, all fluid plumbing done and installed in the boat and all lines made/ hooked up as necessary. Then the entire boat with engines installed went to Kieth Eickerts old partner from back in the day to finish the job and fix all the stuff that was incorrect. While at this private shop that is sort of invitation only to get into because he is retired and he just does the jobs he wants to keep him busy Eickert was consulted several times for his opinion on what was done and how to fix it as they are still friends and talk frequently. If any specific details are needed I will provide them privately


Then the engines blew up.

Round 2 has started with the new engines. I have issues with this current builder as well but as long as the engines don't blow up I will be ok. This is a professional builder with a huge shop that does a lot of work in the area, but probably wouldn't be known to most on here.

Want to here about problems with carbs and paint and drive rebuilds and transmissions and who did that? Sorry, not in the mood.

One day I'll post my timeline, but there is a time and place for everything.

Currently rebuilding another engine, should be my fourth I think but I lost count.....

Bck brian, I would think its fair , if your opinion, on what is good or bad rigging, leads you to pretty much call out an engine builder, rigger, or whatever, as doing shoddy work, to back it up with some details and specifics.

Ive made statements about shops and builders from what ive seen. Last year i was unhappy with the work a shop did on my cylinder heads. I provided measurements of things with a micrometer, pictures, part numbers, and so on, to explain why i was giving the opinion i was giving.

Some of us do all our own work and rigging, and while not knowing everything, can kind of make a decision on whats good or bad, when info is provided.

I mean, not for nothin, you have been all over tim on facebook and oso for speaking out against bob madera. You have done a fair share of speaking out against some professionals in the business, but i havent seen any substance in your statements to back any of it up, or at least provide the info to let others form their opinion. Just saying "they suck" , isnt very informative .

Oh . And this guy built my street motor. Stored my boat and sold me parts. I considered having him build the boat motors but he was to busy. Must be me

http://wivb.com/2014/06/24/mechanic-...as-paid-to-do/

What's really funny is this guy was always straight with me and the Smith Bros pushrods he sold me for the boat motors were not in the engines when they came apart. The honest guy that built motors replaced half of them with generic ones from comp cams

Sorry M/T not interested. Take it or leave it. I don't care who believes me or who doesn't. I purposely make sure that it is just MY OPINION that they just suck in general. You should be able to figure out why it's worded that way. I'm still waiting for the specifics of the cam damage.

Edit I said I'd provide info on an individual basis to anyone that need it. Quite a few people have seen my boat locally and know exactly what I am talking about. Some are members here and some you know. They may or may not speak up as to their knowledge of some of the issues. Not my concern.

Having seen some work from the people described in your earlier post I have to say I'm of the same opinion.

You better prove it. We don't accept unsubstantiated claims around here.

I've been to the shops, spent tens of thousands of dollars, have the bills and the cancelled checks. I'm not inclined to prove myself to people who have not spent 1 cent with or even visited the shops I'm referring to. My opinions come from from first hand knowledge only, not what some other person told me or what some other builder claims happened.

So wait, you spent every post in here, trying to deflect every issue tim has mentioned, wanting hard facts, rockwell tests, and so on. Nothing posted in this thread, from tim, or haxby, or mer, or anyone else, is enough for you.

But when i ask, for some substance behind your accusations, you plead the fifth?

Wasnt it not long ago you bashed glass Dave's work too? Seems you have a laundry list of people who have failed you in this hobby.

PG 146 Post 1459 ........still going strong

As far as myself....I do my own stuff most of it anyway, I had some issues, fixed them and went boating all summer meanwhile good friends and others on Oso sit waiting for big time builders to get things done, I may have issues but I learn and make the best of what I can. Some guys here know me personally and know I don't give up easy if I did I would have walked away by now. I would put stock power back in and run it every weekend before getting out of baiting I love it, it's my stress relief (when it's good haha) guys like joe and Randy I have a ton of discussions with and they know I am not the idiot that some people may think, I have provided way more build specs and info then anyone I think I ever saw that was having issues... As far as hard evidence on cams? Well clearly the cracking marks should not be there, clearly that's not builder fault, and clearly that's a problem that in my opinion needs addressed. I guess one way to look at it is, I see many guys spend 2-3x what I did and still have the same issues so just because you spend the $ don't mean your getting quality.

I am giving this a last shot, if it don't work out then I will part engines out band buy stock power and drop them in, I don't expect my results to suck with who is helping me locally do the work on my heads and spec parts, had he and I not lost track of each other years ago we would not have this post, not saying I'm gonna have a home run fix, but i can say his track record is great, I trust him 110% to do the best he can and advise the best he can offer, that's hard to say about guys because it's rare, he's not a shop, he don't have overhead and he don't care about getting rich doing it, he enjoys it and can make some fun $ doing it, same reason guys love Mike T here on Oso, we'll know don't see bad things attached to his name.

If I can see 670+ in marine trim on a Dyno or if I can't Dyno and I see 75 mph I am a happy man... That's my goal..

Gotta admit... I make great threads lol

So far most are still kinda getting along too!

Correct I do have a laundry list. Tim choses to say what he wants as he sees fit. My opinions on the people I mentioned are based on direct first hand experience in person and nothing else. I've walked the walk with these people, you just talk the talk. I lived in a Nashville suburb for a week working on my boat. Have you even visited ? Tell me what you know about it. My drives have been to colabella. You ? My boat has been to Dave's. You? I've been to mcquillens for a dyno. You? I've run pro systems carbs. You? I've run Bob's cams. You? You have zero first hand knowledge of any of it. You'll have to refresh my memory of bashing Dave on here because I don't recall it. But if I do choose to it will be because he actually performed a service for me so can have an opinion on the quality of that service unlike you who just parrot what you've been told to think because you certainly haven't done any business with these people have you?

Same as I speak on my own personal dealings with Bob, and got bashed to hell and back for it a year ago, now almost every person that hated on me sees that it wasn't my fault entirely, I spoke how Randy and Johnson lifter treated me, Tim @ afr treated me, and kip at cam motion did... One thing the last 3 have in common is they all have been great to me... That's how it should be, Bob only pretended to care.... And talked bad about me to totters behind the scenes... Yet asked me not to do that... I sent bob email with no harsh words at all, no response... None... Zero... Zip... That tells me what he's all about... Take your $ and run...

Yea, my drives have been to collabella. What was your beef with him? He screw you over too ? Or did you stiff him on the payment too?

And as far as my problems go, this thread is about Tim's problems. I spent a few posts talking about some issues I had because it seemed appropriate. If and when I want to start a thread with all the details of my problems I will do it. You are sorely mistaken MT if you think I feel a need to prove any claims I ever choose to make to you.

No fuking way ! Doh !:readinghelp: LOL.

Oops lol

This will be good. Tell me what you think you know. Go for it. You accusing me of not paying something. Let's hear it. Check with whoever you feel you are defending first though as this will not go well for them

Well, I was bored so I figured I would take my emgine out, tear it apart so I can show guys the fix for the roll master timing chain issue Bob don't speak of... This was builder error too I'm sure... But I was smart enough to check that... Wonder how many don't??

[ATTACH=CONFIG]560421[/ATTACH]

The chains don't fit for shzt. Neither did mine. Like you said my builder caught it. One was exchanged because it was opened, the other was refunded.

I have first hand experience with spelling so I thought I could chime in..please don`t ask me for details.

I'd like to apologize for having a well formed opinion based on services I've actually received. I should have known better than to attempt rational thought here in grade school. Tim, I sincerely wish you luck, hopefully you can tell by some of the recent posts I made that I attempted to assist you somewhat although I still don't necessarily agree with your assessment of issues. I'm done with this thread. Not worth my effort. You almost drug me into this sh-thole M/T. Sorry I just remembered I don't give a flying f-ck.

At least MT has an opinion on the technical issues you're just f-cking blowhard jumping on the bandwagon.

I just wanna know if anyone has had success long term, guess my answer is none have that will speak up good or bad.

Or you could figure anyone who has a problem has spoken up and that's it. What you heard is what there is.

Tim, you should have listened to the experts, and just kept running your engine . It was fine.

I appreciate your feedback.
Have a fantastic do as I say not as I do weekend.

I think the bigger issue is most have very little time... Guess time will tell..

You know how bad I really didn't wanna pull that Intake that night lol

I hope, this can stay on track and not get locked up, as many have posted valid points , that said, stay focused and post from experience as many of us are listening intently.