Aluminum head valve seat material??
 

Trying to research what material EXACTLY is used in these brand heads.... not finding anything really looking around..intake and exhaust...

AFR?
DART?
EDELBROCK?

Ductile iron is a standard exhaust seat it's cheap and will work well with leaded fuel. Not good for unleaded fuel. Also might have a lot to do with inconel it might have a rough grain.

Darts automotive heads, get Ductile Iron. Darts "marine" heads, get powdered metal.

AFR uses Ductile Iron.

Brodix uses ductile iron, but will upgrade seats if you wish.

Engine Quest uses Powdered Metal.

Teague uses Tucker valve seats.

Heres a good read about valve seats here

http://www.dura-bondbearing.com/Port...tech-guide.pdf

Heres a teague engine. Look at the description, and you will see "AFR HEADS", and "TUCKER VALVE SEATS". Teague installs upgraded seats in their afr heads.

http://teaguecustommarine.com/em0011...ong-block.html

“Here are the facts,” said Kiekhaefer. “On the 565, we found a more durable valve seat material in long-term endurance testing. We gave new 565 owners the option of having us install our new seats now, or at a more convenient time of their choosing—as late as first rebuild. Nor-Tech and Formula chose now. Cigarette chose later.”

The 565 engines currently being constructed at Mercury Racing to fill orders that came out of the Miami show will have the new valve seat materials, as will all subsequent 565 units when the engine goes into full production next week.

i am gonna do some research the best I can to see if older AFR heads were the same I know a handful with no seat changes and no issues, not to say they can't have issues, but this nonstop spending on new heads has to stop... None of this stuff comes up until I'm already into this stuff it seems, might just go with it and roll the dice because I'm plain and simple fed up

Don't run a solid cam if you roll the dice.

Tim, something Dan and I were talking about last week, was maybe a leaded fuel additive? Not sure if there is one that works, but , might be something to consider if you decide to roll the dice. I can't see it hurting anything?

Octane Supreme is the only additive that actually has lead in it. All the other substitutes on the market are just that substitutes and contain no lead. We found it very beneficial adding 2stroke oil every fill-up at a 100:1 ratio. With general maintenance tear downs top ends looked much better. Mercury actually recommends a 2 stroke mix with there 1350&up motors. I think a lot of problems we have now is the fuel is simply to dry. They have taken all the lubricants out of it. Either buy race fuel, aviation fuel or add two stroke oil every fill-up two extend the life of the top end. No spark plugs do not foul out. You get a little puff of smoke at start-up and other than smelling like a weed wacker at idle you would never know the difference.

I Have 2 sets of AFR 335 from 2009 and 1 set that are 9 months old . At 20 hrs the seats are shot in all 3 sets of heads. Switching g all of them for beryllium seats right now

Just talked to Bill he said same thing, he thinks it will be ok but if I wanted to run additive he said it won't hurt at all, that seat you posted looks very sunk, maybe that one was a bad casting? I am at the point I have to roll dice, already too deep into this to change now... It's not like they won't be apart next year for some f in reason lol

Then there my buddy cig with 600+ hours on his 600's going strong... I guess it's a 50/50 shot..

It's looking like I am sticking with hydraulic and going shirt travel, saves me lifter and pushrod cost since I can most likely keep base circle the same..
I do t have endless funds or I would do seats and solids and other things, I prefer to just run them until they break again

Tim, with all the issues that you have had, I would seriously consider the seat upgrades, (yes I understand the continuing Cost issues, and truly feel for you) but also consider that when the exhaust valves begin to leak, you will increase the odds of reversion then it will snowball into more issues. I can't remember if your exhaust is wet or dry..Just another angle to consider.

too late, moving forward... exhaust is dry to tip... if they break they break.... I honestly don't even care anymore...

Yeah Tim I understand! I get it! Sometimes you just have to draw the line. I wish you the best, you deserve a break for sure!

Thats a good point. When the exhaust valves start leaking , reversion is highly likely. Tim isnt running a full dry exhaust, still has rubber couplers inside the transom. Cold water on hot valves , is never good either.

actually Mercruiser in the 1980's and up till the mid 90's recommended a lead substitute mixed in the gas for V-6 their engines. They sold it as well made by golden eagle up till 2001 or somewhere in that timeframe.

I am actually in favor of running a 120 to 1 of 2 stroke motor oil for marine I/O and inboards all the time. Adding lubricity to the fuel has some positives effects. On top of, I actually see fuel injectors in better shape internally from customers who use it even carbs internally have shown to be in better shape down the road (marine apps). IMO OEM electric fuel pumps in marine apps seem to hold up better as well having a bit of lubricity all the time.

You need a comfy seat :D

Relax, and don't make any decisions all pizzed off.

http://cdn.homedit.com/wp-content/up...conchair07.jpg

back in my drag race days i ran blown alcohol and used a top lube additive but i can,t remember what brand i used.i can,t see how it would harm our marine engines if used with today,s unleaded fuel.i wonder how many sets of afr heads are out their in marine use and how many have seat issues.

Just adding about --- Teague is huge fan of Tucker Valve seats. Teague uses Tucker Valve seats that are rated 40 on the Rockwall Hardness scale and for a more severe duty installs a rating of 50 on the Rockwall hardness scale.

most ductile iron seats mostly are rated around or up to 30 on the Rockwall hardness scale.

lol surprised my wife don't have that!

decision made, already too deep into project to change, I may just run the additive and see how it goes...

Would it help to put 5 gallans or so of 110 octane leaded in each tank full. May be a stupid question but there was talk a bought additives with lead. I even though about doing it with my 500efi's but didnt know if it would be safe for the fuel injection

I ran 110 in my bikes and one of my cars all the time just never in my boats

Put the seats in and put the boat in a month late you will be happy you did.

Just thinking out loud - I have never seen nor tested fuel injectors that used leaded fuel - just wonder how the deposit control in the pintle area of the injector would be ? IMO I think the lead deposits would mean that the fuel injectors would have to be cleaned way more often. Again just thinking out load about Marine apps using leaded fuel EFI engines.

it's not a time issue...seriously not giving much of a chit, and I am not paying to redo the heads again right now, one set is past that point, if anyon e wants to send a check I will be happy to accept the cost... until then I have a 50/50 shot and I will deal with it... it may go 50 hours.... may got 500....

Why even ask this question then? :confused::readinghelp: Seems you made your mind up on what you wanna do. I mean, you asked , and guys are giving their advice. Some have been down this road before, and just trying to help you out.

Back in the day we always ran up to the corner Mobil gas station and would buy a case of "Mobil Upper Lube Super" and run it in the drag boat, street race cars. then fog the engine with it come winter time lay up. Real good stuff! Now days I just add two stroke oil, People always ask me why my engines smoke after being rafted up for a few hours, well I don't run valve seals and use oil in my gas. I just say the engines are old and they are!

I was too chicken chit to not run without exhaust seals, but did remove the tension springs off the seals, like mercury racing did on their supercharged engines. As did icdedppl. Doesnt seem to be hurting anything...Next year I'm gonna throw some 2 stroke oil in the tanks. I wanna get that Klotz stuff that smells like candy though. To help attract the ladies ya know. :coolcowboy:

Do everyone on here a favor don't B I T C H that you have to change your seats later. If I remember they where already sunk. Only reason I siad to wait a month is the fuel cost will pay for the material and the job. Everyone try's to help others on here.

I never run the exhaust seals my thought you have pressure in exhaust more than not and oil will have hard time getting there. But you may get a puff of oil smoke when starting and everyone will think motor is tired. LOL

What are thoughts on using marvel mystery oil instead of 2 stroke oil? I've added that to my tank to try to help top end lubrication for years. Nothing overboard, just some, not even close to 100:1.

Mystery oil would be fine, but IMO you need to have enough mix to actually make a difference!

Also use it in my Carbs after I drain the fuel out for the winter, dump a bunch in each bowl through the needle and seat and pump it through the acc pumps till it comes out the nozzels. then remove carbs and bring them in the house for the winter

I love marvel mystery oil.

So many uses. Worked last week to get some roofing tar off my skin!

:party-smiley-051:i love marvel mystery oil,i buy it by the gallon.

It's great we use it in the bedroom:thankyouthankyou:

o my that,s tmi.