Who wants to play
 

Winter is here. Who wants to play? Heres what Im thinking.

Tim Full Forces 540 combo. I'll make a dyno simulation of his build, and I will list 10 different catalog hydraulic roller profiles. Each guy gets to vote on which one they think will win. No other changes to the engine, except the cam.

Question is, we must define win. Lets say its a 6,000rpm limit. Do we want the winner to be defined by , peak HP, Peak torque, best average power? Avg power between 3k to 6k, 4k to 6k, 5k to 6k?

Winner gets a small prize. Just something for fun to do. I can post the dyno sheets from each cam when its over. No right , no wrong , just a computer program , nothing to take serious .

ok. I got a list of cams. All hydraulic roller obviously.

First three, are Lunati.

A: 240/245 112 LSA .612/612 lift

B: 245/250 112 LSA .612/612 lift

C: 250/255 112 LSA .629/.629 lift

Next eight cams, are from Crane.

D: 236/244 110 LSA .610/.632

E: 236/244 112 LSA .610/632 (infamous 741 cam)

F: 236/244 114 LSA .610/.632 (525EFI cam)

G: 240/248 112 LSA .621/632

H: 242/246 112 LSA .632/632

I: 244/256 114 LSA .632/.632 (popular "651" cam)

J: 248/256 114 LSA .632/632

K 254/262 110 LSA .680/.680

Next two from Howards

L: 251/257 110 LSA .629/.629

M: 253/259 110 LSA .657/640

Whoever picks the cam that makes the most average power and torque wins. I will post all the results from each test. We can then discuss which cam might be best for different things, but this is simply best average power from 3500-6000.

This is a 9.5:1 540ci, with AFR 325 CNC chamber heads, single plane high flow intake, and 1050 CFM carb, with large tube headers. Only thing changed will be the camshaft in the model.

Average HP and Torque between 3500 and 6000

I'm thinking just using Cranes hyd rollers. Mainly, because A. they have a large selection. B. They give enough data about the camshaft, such as seat duration, .050 duration, timing events, and so on. If you want it to be fairly accurate, that prob be best comparison.

what happens if it doesn't go to 6000 rpms.:party-smiley-004:

it will still show in the avg power . or you mean in the boat?

Agree. That's where it's all at.

Ok. Avg is set from 3500-6000. :coolcowboy:

I think he was referring to the minimal hp gain 5,500 - 6,000 in tims

throw a 525 efi cam in the mix.

While your at it do a dyno sim for my next project : 8.5-1 548, open plenum ported intake, 2200 cfm throttle body, cncd afr heads that flow 420 intake and 300+ exhaust, no accesorys, dyno headers w 32" primarys 2 1/4 dia, 15" collectors. Im starting with a cam i own thats too big but going to run it anyways, with solid rollers, (hyd roller grind) 252/259 at .050, .390 lobe lifters 114. Tell me what cam would be more ideal and peak at 6000

Got it. :)

762hp

At 6,700 ?

Your dyno program is quite generous compared to mine! I edited that post, id like to see what cam joe says it needs vs what im going to start with.

ok. I got a list of cams. All hydraulic roller obviously.

First three, are Lunati.

A: 240/245 112 LSA .612/612 lift

B: 245/250 112 LSA .612/612 lift

C: 250/255 112 LSA .629/.629 lift

Next eight cams, are from Crane.

D: 236/244 110 LSA .610/.632

E: 236/244 112 LSA .610/632 (infamous 741 cam)

F: 236/244 114 LSA .610/.632 (525EFI cam)

G: 240/248 112 LSA .621/632

H: 242/246 112 LSA .632/632

I: 244/256 114 LSA .632/.632 (popular "651" cam)

J: 248/256 114 LSA .632/632

K 254/262 110 LSA .680/.680

Next two from Howards

L: 251/257 110 LSA .629/.629

M: 253/259 110 LSA .657/640

Whoever picks the cam that makes the most average power and torque wins. I will post all the results from each test. We can then discuss which cam might be best for different things, but this is simply best average power from 3500-6000.

This is a 9.5:1 540ci, with AFR 325 CNC chamber heads, single plane high flow intake, and 1050 CFM carb, with large tube headers. Only thing changed will be the camshaft in the model.

I think the answer is 8.4

I'll take D

I'll take Bob M's cam for 200,,alex.:D

oops,,wrong game.

O None of the above. But K is getting in the realm.

I have no idea but am very curious about this so I'll pick J

I'll take J for the win.......

I'll take C. Just because I am leaning towards the Lunati's of similar nature for my next engines.

Joe, will your software plot a graph?

M then K. :)

Yes. I can attach that as well

If you could. That way everyone can see why most of those cams don't have a shot in hell running over 5,000 rpms I think everyone gets caught up in peak numbers and misses how important where peak occurs. And after it get there how fast it starts to drop off. And what it takes for the motor to keep carrying the power after it peaks...

I'll say k

I really like the 651 as its been proven in many 540 builds.... but what the hell:

L: 251/257 110 LSA .629/.629

Ill work on that smitty. Can you get me a full flow file on the heads, and more specifics on the camshaft? Cam card?

I'll pick "C", I always pick "C".

Curious to see the difference between d, e, and f. For fun I'll say d.

M please

L for the ell of it.
Mt, when you run these syms against a known and dynoed build how close do they come with the curve and peak?

I ll take the 741 (but can you advance it another 4 degrees)

I cant find cam card, i bought it years ago. Use afr 335 cncs for the flow to make it easy, see what cam your program says it needs, going to start with this cam but probably wont be in it when im done. My performance trends software shows it at about 700 hp but im going to have to see it on dyno to believe it with only 8.5/ 8.6 compression. Motors already built and fresh leftover from Baja, going to see what hp limit is using lowest octane motor likes without spark knock, thanks, Smitty

Pretty close. But of course theres lots of variables. Main reason i chose mostly crane cams for this , is because, they give you a bunch of info on the camshaft. You get seat timing events, as well as .050. Putting in specs of just .050 and lift, dont tell you much about the cam. Some cams have 2 deg of advance built in, some have 4, some have 5, etc. That alone can dictate the powerband etc.

Isn't the real trick to figure out which cam makes the most power early - based on the average power from 3500 up.

K, M, or C but let's go with K for Kevin

They all suck Joe can't your kitty cat help you with some custom cams :lolhit:

Remember, Crane does seat at .004", pretty much everyone else does .006".

You know you have it right when you simply enter all the timing events, and it spits the exact cam specs out from the cam card. Howver, you can enter advertised duration and 050, and have completely different timing events .