525 Repair Costs??
 

For a 2007 525 package, with slightly over 200 hours, what's the cost to change the springs, retainers, locks and seals? In an earlier post, Eddie suggested these things if motors are close to 200 hours.

525 Repair Costs??
 

For a 2007 525 package, with slightly over 200 hours, what's the cost to change the springs, retainers, locks and seals? In an earlier post, Eddie suggested these things if motors are close to 200 hours.

Unless the engines have had the crap run out of them you should be good closer to 400 hours. That's when I did mine. I'll have to dig up the invoice but it wasn't that high.

2007 vintage is what mine is and they have all the good upgrades.

Your right on track, do springs to help avoid valve train failure. I did complete top ends and lifters at 300 hrs on our last boat, bought the boat with 265 on it and they had never been opened up, The spring change is nominal and excellent preventative maintenance. While your at it take the headers off send them to CMI for test and re-polish, very inexpensive, or test them yourself.

Thirdchildhood had good luck with his but I would never push them that far. Eddie is right on he has seen many of these engines in his shop and works on them everyday, his advice come from years of experience.

I have the same set up, 2007 525efis, 200 hrs seem very young for a proven crate motor. I called Mercury Racing sometime back, and while they really cant give advise outside of the printed manual, he did share that Mercury built over 10,0000 of the 525s, with very little warranty work traced back to a mechanical design error/issue. He went on to say that he has customers with 525 package with over 800 hours, never opened, no issues. That said, like moset anything, it is how you treat it or how it has been treated. RPM history largely under 3000, should last long time. Majority of RPM history north of 4000 and 5000, probably going to need work done earlier.

I am no mechanic, not near what the Eddies and BUP's of this forum are, but that is just what I have been told and experience.

If I could ANY advise on the 525, change the oil every 25hrs just as the book says. I am VERY easy on mine, and was surprised how dark the oil was after 25hrs of use.

Your call, but my .02.

Enjoy!

I think it really depends who does it and what is replaced.

To pull it out, tear down the top end, rebuild the heads with all new parts, surface heads, valve job, tap heads, detail heads to remove any casting flash, etc., lap valves, assemble heads, install with new ARP head bolts and Cometic head gaskets, reassemble top end, install engine and drive and test run boat runs around 3K
Eddie

Eddie, do you replace all the valves at that price?? What about lifters? Rocker arms?

Eddie, thanks! At 200 hours, do I need to do all that you mention above now? Or just springs, retainers, etc? Am an engine novice so forgive me if Im not getti g concepts right away. Many thanks!

It depends on the engines.Mercury didn't go by years per se. However, about 2007 they made some changes. Now, a 2007 boat could easily have 2006 engines. If they are 2006 engines, then the heads need to be pulled.They have composite head gaskets with GM head bolts. The fire ring separates from the rest of the gasket and starts to move around. It will eat into the head between the cylinders. Eventually, they will leak between the cylinders and torch the heads, digging a trough right there. Seen it happen more times then I can count. If they are the newer engines, you can get away without pulling the heads. I won't do it though.

Pwraddr, there is no reason to change the lifters at that point. The rockers are a case by case basis. If they show wear, we change them. They are a 50/50 deal. It really depends on how well, or not, the springs held up. That's what seems to beat up the rockers. The valves are another case by case item. Some get hammered pretty good if the springs are really weak. In that case, we change them.

There are a few other items that I didn't list out that we change. We replace the exhaust gaskets with MLS SS exhaust gaskets. They aren't cheap....but they last forever. The Mercury gasket are a one time use and cost almost $60 a set. The MLS ones are about 80 but last forever. We also replace the tailpipe gaskets, oil and filter, etc.
Eddie

Charlie, I would be glad to go over it with you in more detail. You can reach me anytime at 615-216-7449
Eddie

Charlie, you can't go wrong dealing with Eddie.

Padraig

Eddie,
Would you please post a part number for the MLS SS exhaust gaskets?

Thanks!

We have Cometic make them for us. They aren't in their catalog or website since they don't advertise them or normally make them. They are 5 layers thick and have both standard GM pattern and the 525 pattern.
Eddie

i will add that sooner or later the heads will need to be removed for a valve job and new head gaskets,may as well do it now,then you can go 250 to 300 hours and not worry about top end stuff.

How do you only run 20 hours per year? I hope they are balls to the wall hours...

Threads merged. No reason to post the same thing in 2 sections

Have the headers been tested for leaks? :eek:

And what exactly are you buying?
38 Fountain EC?
38 Cigarette?
42 Fountain?
Hydrohoist?

Why do you need to pull the engine(s)?

Have you ever pulled heads on a blue motor? I did an no way would I ever do it with them in the boat.

I've done it but it is NOT pleasant. Much better / easier to pull motor...

Ha! Doing prudent due diligence about my purchase. Down to 38 TG and Fountain 38EC. The posts have been tremendously helpful!! I want the Cig, wifey pooh wants a cabin and shade, hence 38EC. Have had a 35 Executioner and a 22 Donzi. Moving up and want to make sure I have alll the facts. Hydro Hoist is where I'll store. Run on the Chesapeake Bay.

It all depends on the boat, but 99% of them are easier if you just pull them out. It will take damn near twice as long to do the job in the boat, thus offsetting the time to remove them. It also gives the owner the opportunity to address any other items like bilge pumps, clean and paint bilge, etc. IMO, you can do a better job with them on an engine stand rather than hanging upside down in the bilge.
Eddie

Amen!!!

Just talked to a friend of mine, hes picking up a clean 99 (i think) 47 Fountain, he knows the owner. Triple 500s, 500 hours each, never opened. He and I know the boat, clean, fresh water boat. all fluids and filters ontime.... Not dismantling anything said herein, just sharing. I guess I should ask the gurus, older 500s built "different/better" than 07 and newer 525s?

What year motors?
EFI or Carbs?
It matters.

What year motors?
EFI or Carbs?
I could assume 1999 and "HP500" carb motors, but want to confirm before suggesting anything.

Carb, I guess the old HP500 Bulldogs? late 90s

Now, a Bulldog is a different beast all together.

HP500 Carb: 502 block well optimized for 500 CSHP.
HP500 Bulldog (also carb): 540 block conservatively built for 500 CSHP; optimum build platform for blower motors back in the day.

But given what you speak of on age, I would be very surprised if they are performing well if the valve springs have never been replaced and an overall top end inspection. I would hope he had leak-down inspections done.

It's hard to compare the two but I'll stand by my assessment that there is no need to tear down the top end of a 525 at 200 hours unless it's a race boat. No disrespect meant to Eddie.

None taken. That's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it.Who am I to try to change your mind.
However, mine isn't an opinion. It comes from tearing into well over 100 525's. I'll say this much and leave it at that. Every one that we have torn into has had spring pressures less than 110 pounds on the seat. These are all engines between 175-350 hours. The majority of them had less then 105 pounds and numerous ones had less then 100 pounds. There is not one cam manufacturer out there that would agree that those springs pressures are sufficient for a cam with the lift and duration that the 525 has. Those light springs can and do cause numerous other problems.....we've seen them and fixed them, many times over. As far as I'm concerned from a business standpoint, I think Mercury is doing a fine job. I hope they continue. They account for a large portion of my gross income.

I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative or a smart ass, so please don't take this the wrong way. You have your opinion and are completely entitled to it. But I have the facts and plenty of pics to back it up.
Eddie

I think it was mid year 98 when the 500 efi's came out. I guess they could be either HP500's or 500 EFI's in a 99 boat.
Eddie

Your opinion is based on the fact that you have been fortunate enough not to have had a failure during this interval. I had a rocker failure at 200 hours that spit needle bearings everywhere and trashed the engine. There are plenty of other cases like mine that support the assumption that the 525 has weaknesses in the valve train, mainly the valve springs. When my rocker failed, we tested the spring pressure on the OEM springs, they were less than 100#. That is not enough to control the valve and the rocker had worn out around the polylock indicating it was bouncing around. First thing I did after replacing that engine was change the springs and rockers on the other two engines. Your entitled to your opinion and you've been lucky. There are plenty of 525's that have gone 400+ hours without a hiccup and there are plenty that have blown up unexpectedly at what would seem like very low hours. I am a huge fan of the 525; I have three of them. But as an owner of these engines you have to understand the risks and decide whether you want to spend a little money preventively or risk a catastrophic failure that kills half your boating season.

That sounds about right. My HP500EFI was a 2001, and when I sold it around 200 hours or so, the new buyer confirmed with Bob Teague personally via serial number that the cutover to some better valvetrain components was done before my engine was built.

I purchased a pair of 525 long blocks fresh from the machine shop from a friend of mine, I spoke to the machine shop and they said the springs were within spec and they didn't replace them, my question is there a way to determine whether these are original Merc springs or have they been replaced, currently these springs have no more than 15 hours of run time on them. They are setting on my stands, do I replace them now ?? Ive not even ran the valves on these yet. And if I do replace them what do I go with. Thanks

If he checked them, then he should know what the pressures are. Ask him. Also, one identifying feature of the stock springs is their short install height. They only go in about 1.820". We change to a 10* retainer and lock which gives us about .090 more available install height. This opens up the spring selection tremendously. On a stock 525, we use the ISKY 8005A.
Eddie

And that first year of the 500 efi was goofy. They used leftover parts from the 500 hp. We rebuilt 3 of them a few yrs ago. I wanted to replace the oil thermostat and had to get one for a hp 500 instead of a 500 efi. The following year got different parts. Guess Mercury used up what they had laying around. lol
Eddie

That's a DEAL! Some shops charge that just to pull and reinstall the engines alone!

Either way I support freshing the top ends BEFORE there's issues, and 200-300 hrs is the max I would go personally.

Ironically, the Mercury Racing service manual for the 525 specifically says installed height of 1.850", yet all three of my engines had nothing higher than 1.810" on the OEM springs. I have since replaced them all with Isky 8005A's and 10* retainers and locks at 1.850"; that was two seasons and 125 hours ago.

thanks