Promaxx 320 flow numbers
 

Just thought might be something different than what's been going on lately. Heads should be in today and Jim v should be on them relatively quickly. Outside of the initial quality inspection grinding will begin. Anyone care to take a guess on flow numbers.

.200
.300
.400
.500
.600
.700

I'm not concerned where they end up cause I know there in good hands. I will take a guess at numbers a little later.

I bet they are gonna flow pretty good. You sticking with the 2.25 valve?

2.300 I'm pretty sure.

Will be interesting but going to require some work. Heads are suppose to show up at his shop today. This is a little off the wall for me to go outside my comfort zone so to speak but why not give them a try. If they're not worthy I will hopefully keep anyone from making a mistake themselves. Pretty sure jims going to raise the floors on intakes. We'll look at intake manifolds as he moves along. Surprised he did mention at this point Super Victor over Sniper Jr. He is mocking up an intake with clay to help determine some things. We're looking at a 236/244 custom comp cam at this point but will more than likely have another shelf cam ready to do some back to back dyno pulls.

Rather than peck away at numbers it would be easier to compare to a cnc'd head.

Looking forward to hearing how they work out John. The price certainly looks great on the bare castings.

Thanks MT. I will keep u and others of interest informed. They're definitely going to go beyond your normal light port job and blending but I will post numbers before and after regardless. Quality of casting is my biggest concern at this point but will soon find out.

Definitly watching this..

i have the short block at the shop right now, cam, blower, carb and exhaust.. only thing left to get is heads.

You really should pick a cam, after you pick heads Phragle. The flow characteristics of the head, is what dictates what the cam requirements should be .

I don't think you need to be worried about the quality of the castings. Jim and I spent a good half hour talking things over with Jason at ProMaxx at PRI. Jim fondled them for a bit also, he thought they looked pretty good for the $$$. There is a marine builder that has been using them for a couple of years with no issues. From their published flow #'s there might not be much work to do to them, but you never know. I stopped by after work today and I see he has a lot of new heads there to compare out of the box #'s to. New World Merlin, EQ320's, Dart 345's, Brodix SR-20's (F'n Huge!), some new Wieand tunnel rams and an Edelbrock single for the SR-20's. I'll stop by over the weekend and hopefully take a peak at your heads.

I had heads picked out, sitting on the shelf actually. But the cost of freshening them up and respringing vs what I can get a set of promaxx's for (setup with correct springs, inconel etc.) has me thinking about them. Building by a tried and true simple recipe, better heads would only improve. Though my main thought that has me looking to alum heads is the better cooling and ability to handle more compression. My compression range was already discussed with my builder and wont change with the alum heads if I go that route, It would be more of an overbuild idea.

Rookie they showed up at Jims house rather than shop but he did a quick inspection and he said the runner looked a bit biggger then advertised. Regardless you'll probably see them before I so just keep me posted.

How come this thread doesn't have 5 more pages each time I look?

Are these the cast or aluminum heads

Let me fix that for ya....:

Call Bob Madera.

Ok, that should do it. :party-smiley-004:

The promaxx are aluminum.

both,,cast aluminum.:D

too many reasons to list,,but if we did,,it'd hit 5 pages quickly.:D

call Bob Madera marine kinetics do the phone date for like forever / does not want any money , also no parts , the important part / just where ole bob when we need him ??

Jim said casting looked great. He did a quick flow out of the box with a 2.25 intake and was 382. Exhaust was 250. Both were flowed at .700.

Forgot to mention the exhaust was all done @ .600 but that's going to change drastically.

Better cooling how?
They don`t handle more compression, they require more compression due to the faster absorbtion of heat.
Only advantage to Aluminum heads is weight saving, the rest is just marketing and old wives tales that came from great marketing.
You buy ready to bold on assembled heads all the specs are going to be tight for automotive use.May work just fine with tight valve guides and factory valve jobs, or it may not. Tim might be able to shed some light on that.

Not from promaxx assembled, but from a marine engine guy assembled......

Here's a little more info on the subject cast vs aluminum.

http://www.performanceracing.com/mag..._aluminum.html

Here you go getrdunn. I talked to Jim a bit but he wasn't at the shop. I needed to get some oil for the Caddy and they were on the flow bench.
.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...113_173734.jpg
.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...113_173327.jpg
.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...113_173451.jpg
.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...113_173544.jpg
.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...113_173657.jpg

Cool Tks. I'm getting pumped.

I'm no expert, but they are very clean castings. Just as Jason said when we spoke with them. Their first order of business when they purchased them was to up the quality.
.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...113_173650.jpg
.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...113_173600.jpg

Those do look like some nice castings.
The pockets look nice around the guides.
Be cool to see the chambers with the head gasket laying on the surface. Looks like the intake valve is ushrouded quite a bit from the get go.
Please take some similar shots after he's done.

What problem was Patriot having ?

If I recall it was the aluminum alloy and the machine work after casting. ProMaxx has them (supplier) machine the heads "steel safe" and they (Promaxx) machines them to the customers given tolerances. They do all final machining passes.

To my knowledge it was cash flow and finish quality. From what I understsnd since they've been at new foundry and under new ownership things have improved a great deal.

Do they have QC that stays at the foundry ? Reason why I ask is we all know what happens after all company reps leave the foundry / manufacturer / etc over there.

I don't recall, but I believe they don't. That's why they are just rough cut. I also remember him saying that they changed the sand used in their castings. That is why they look so good in the casted areas that aren't machined. They quality of sand is some of the best.

Looking good fellas. Another option on the table for us BBC fans on a budget.

Interesting to see what Jim V. Does and what exactly needs to be changed on exhaust port if it is all done at .600". Interesting to see full out of box flow numbers.

The new castings look great, I'm curious what Jim is going to be able to do with them. Here are some flow numbers for the Patriot 320 head. These were flowed with out a pipe on a 4.31 bore.

.20 140/103
.30 195/154
.40 252/189
.50 305/242
.60 343/256
.70 369/266
.80 363/266

I have these same heads on my 509. Ive only had the boat out once since the build so cant really say to much cause i was taking it easy and i need a bigger carb. My builder got the castings and built them up himself. Hes used them on several engines with no issues. I do lknow i am making way more power then before but its more then just the heads obviously. My builder ordered a custom ground cam based off the heads. Only time will tell i guess but so far so good.

Its kinda funny cause I think Jim is pretty curious also but is very confident. I'm going to have him send a pic or two from time to time but not going to ask for numbers til he's done. Glad rookie posted before pics.

I agree.

Theres waaaaayyyy more to controlling what an engine can take before detonation, than simply cylinder head material. Its called , engine management.

A good example. Look at the 454 truck engines. For the longest time, thru the 70's, and 80's, and up till the mid 90's, the 454 truck engine, was 7.9:1 static, with iron heads. This engine was designed for 87 octane.

When GM revised it in 1996, they raised the compression to 9:1, still with iron heads, and ran on 87 octane. With the changes made, the power output also went up substantially as well. Then , they came out with the 8.1L engine, also 9:1 static. Again, 87 octane. Still, iron heads. The meat and potatoes pretty much remained the same.

Those engines certainly see some detonating types of conditions. Coolant temps in 210* range, lots of engine lugging pulling 15k lb trailers up a hill at low engine speeds, hot humid weather with insane underhood temperatures, and so on.

My opinion on the iron heads being handicapped, stem's from the days of guys running god awful lean fuel mixtures (had no widebands to help sort that out), thought locked timing was the best thing going, had no idea what heat range plug to run, and so on. They'd melt an engine down, and blame the material of the cylinder heads as the cause. When in reality, it was their tuning that was the issue.

I also think there are some advantages just from the rigidity of cast iron, esp on engines running boost or nitrous. You have a cylinder head that expands at the same rate as the iron block they are bolted onto, the decks are extremely rigid , head "brinneling" is really not an issue, etc. When a thick iron head is clamped to the block with head studs, the clamping is excellent.

My old aluminum dart heads, had some sure signs of brinneling after 4 seasons of running. Not surprising, since I was running MLS gaskets with stainless wire fire rings. Felpro themselves admits that with an alumnim head, you will get some dents in the soft aluminum deck with those, as opposed to , a copper wire fire ring, that is softer.

Wonder what Merc uses for gaskets on most their engines these days. To be honest I can't see past a year or two tops with same builds. Like everyone else you always gotta take it to the next level. It will either be boat or engines. Just curious MT how much did you have to take off them to clean them back up. Maybe I can rig up some hot water heater elements to my heads and flip a switch 1/2 hour before a ride. Lol.