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Old 03-30-2017 | 08:52 AM
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Fwiw I was very happy with the quality of the Dan Olson pans he fabbed up for me.
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Old 03-30-2017 | 09:00 AM
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I have the canton deep sump offshore pans. Mine doesnt have any kickouts. Icdeppl has the version with the kickouts. Both have the trap doors inside them. 6500 rpm on dyno , oil pressure stsys steady. Icdedppl did have an issue with a little oil psi decrease at higher rpm, but found that was a plumbing issue with the remote lines.
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Old 03-30-2017 | 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by SB
Sounds like a trap door issue. Trap doors essentially make two or more (depending on # of doors) sumps when closed and if they come close to almost sealing. I wonder if the engine being stationary and relatively level (as being on dyno) is keeping doors from opening, and thus the sump the oil pump see's is a whole lot smaller than it would see without the doors or different designed doors.

You having to add that much oil makes me wonder about this.

Interesting.
I bought two of them new at same time, they appeared identical,traap doors in both of them only move a small amount before the wires/springs limit there travel, i NEVER had drainback isdues with these heads or block ever, its not like they are holding 8 quarts. It IS that the pump is NOT seeing all the oil in pan, oh, and IF oil gets past 200 degrees problem starts to go away, ie, water thin oil flowing better .
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Old 03-30-2017 | 09:55 AM
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News at 11 and its almost 11! Lets talk correction factors, everyone loves big numbers, cfs are SUPPOSED to correct observed hp to a standard so that if you dynoed a engine on 10 diff days with totally diff weather it should produce same corrected results, its done using algorithms accounting for humidity, air temp, elevation thats turned into air density then used to take obs hp and turn it into a correct number for that particular day, the moment ANY of that data is incorrect the numbers become almost meaningless unless you are making back to back changes at that moment. The more and more i run this dyno and study /analize the data the more i see slight flaws w the cf, were talking slight. There is also friction factor calculated into the depac based on bore and stroke, i dont know very much sbout it and even norm isnt 100%on it but its based on something depac calculated years ago. So heres what i see, if you make a pull and make 1000 hp OBSERVED and weather dictates a 102.2% cf, your corrected hp SHOULD be 1022 but if this happens at 6000 w depac it ends up being more like 1030, it seems to add about .8 of 1 % at 102.2, if rpms are 6500 it seems to add more like 1%. Now, lets say cf goes from 102.2 to 104.4, corrected hp SHOULD go to 1044, if friction factor adds .8 of a % at 6000 it should show 1052 but it doesnt, it starts to also get corrected more, friction wouldnt really go up unless its assumed pumping losses increase from more water in air, i dont buy it. Also, if this algorithm was figured out in the 90's how does the friction of MY 548 compare having coated pistons, shaft rockers and roller lifters? Norm did tell me recently he could try to figure out how to turn it off but being we are half way thru doing this im not changing everything and starting over.
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Old 03-30-2017 | 10:04 AM
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So how does this cf affect this engine in particular that i dont like? I pulled this a million times w the modded 4150, what ive seen is when cf is at 2 to 3% we made 675 corrected hp/650 to 653 OBSERVED hp and 625- 627 ft lbs tq with mufflers pretty consistently
When cf goes to 5 to 6% the corrected hp goes to 680 to 683 and tq goes to 632 to 635 corrected, a little tiny bit generous. As mentioned, i just made a major investment in a different brand of dyno data aquisition ,just orrdered a desk top tower computer to run it all, going togo on soon. It has its own weather correcting program, weather station, modern algorithms, going to be ran side by the depac, will be REAL iteresting if it spits out higher, same or lower hp numbers. ANY real computer/wire rigging michigan boys feel like donating some time to come help set this up, lol, my son who is much better than me at it is on vacation then when he gets back monday i have a two week backlog of jobs he has to get going on in shop!

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Old 03-30-2017 | 10:12 AM
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Smitty, with correction factors, i have a question.

If you had a dyno sheet, and lets say it shows observed, and corrected power numbers, as well as the correction factor used.

If the correction factor shows say, 1.08, does that automatically mean the corrected numbers should read 8% higher than the uncorrected or "observed" number ?
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Old 03-30-2017 | 10:21 AM
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So, back to the only real part 90% of you guys care about, HP NUMBERS W EFI, drumroll please:
At 1.028 cf AFTER adding/subtracting fuel and timing i made 691 corrected hp thru the mufflers/663 observed, AT THIS CF our BEST carbed hp was 677corrected/652.8 observed, a SOLID 14 hp gain (at 6400).
Tq peak, after turning timing up to 36 degrees THEN raising it/lowering it, blending it, i was able to get upper tq back to good numbers.
Again, at 1.028 cf, 630/631 ft lbs at 5000/5100. Going down to 4400, if was able to bring corrected tq up from 530's to low 570s with more timing, at 36 i actually had .7 degrees kr on pull in that area, backed it down two .degrees for safety of engine. W carb previously after it was tuned out we have seen corrected tq in mid 580s at 4400, so still down 15 ft lbs, looking from 3000 to 4600 against a good carbed pull there are other areas were we are still down 20+ft lbs of tq even after tayloring the timing curve. This motor cannot afford to give up ANY tq if its going to be used the way it is (at this point it prob has a cam change, cu in change, compression change in its future).

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Old 03-30-2017 | 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
Smitty, with correction factors, i have a question.

If you had a dyno sheet, and lets say it shows observed, and corrected power numbers, as well as the correction factor used.

If the correction factor shows say, 1.08, does that automatically mean the corrected numbers should read 8% higher than the uncorrected or "observed" number ?
You would think yes BUT with depac they read about 9% higher because of this k factor/friction factor
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Old 03-30-2017 | 10:37 AM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by articfriends
So how does this cf affect this engine in particular that i dont like? I pulled this a million times w the modded 4150, what ive seen is when cf is at 2 to 3% we made 675 corrected hp/650 to 653 OBSERVED hp and 625- 627 ft lbs tq with mufflers pretty consistently
When cf goes to 5 to 6% the corrected hp goes to 680 to 683 and tq goes to 632 to 635 corrected, a little tiny bit generous. As mentioned, i just made a major investment in a different brand of dyno data aquisition ,just orrdered a desk top tower computer to run it all, going togo on soon. It has its own weather correcting program, weather station, modern algorithms, going to be ran side by the depac, will be REAL iteresting if it spits out higher, same or lower hp numbers. ANY real computer/wire rigging michigan boys feel like donating some time to come help set this up, lol, my son who is much better than me at it is on vacation then when he gets back monday i have a two week backlog of jobs he has to get going on in shop!
I could come do some wiring this weekend probably. Let me know what your work schedule is.
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Old 03-30-2017 | 10:37 AM
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So this is a MANUAL dyno, you control sweep rate with your left hand, this TB is rated at 2200 cfm, is IT giving up some of our lower rpm tq because its too big, would pulling it at less than 100% throttle show a gain then? Did that, held brake at 4400 before doing any changes yesterday, dyno was showing 530 ft lbs,started easing up on throttle, only wentdown, i was thinki g MAYBE it would spike up 20 ft lbs,it did not. Norm says once throttle blade arent straight up and down any throttlung of the air to make it act smaller would be nagated by disrupted sir flow in his opinion. His best guess why our tq in lower rpm ranges is still low is maybe the injector spray acrossed port is disturbibg air flow or there just isnt enough velocity to break fuel being sprayed up enough to burn quite as well. Its bsck to raing so no.more testing till we have another dry as ir, 50 degree 2%cf day, it appears that will be saturday. Next things on agenda, make baseline pull, do some quick and dirty fuel pressure raising/lowering and pull motor from 2800 to 4600 to see IF there is any of that lost tq to be found, add 1"more spacer under tb (has nice 1" 4 hole entry piece norm built right now). Then swap rons 90degree elbow and 105 mm monoblade on, see what that does. After saturday , no more pulls untill data aquisition is completely done, might be two weeks as shop is real busy right now. Then on to 500 efi manifold testing!!
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