MILD THUNDER

iTrader: (3)

Few weeks ago, was at a trade show, where Mahle had a seminar on piston rings. Started talking with the rep from Mahle, in regards to piston rings and what not. I asked him about "gapless" rings. His general opinion, was that they aren't all they are hyped up to be. Years ago, with alcohol engines, they did help keep fuel out of the crankcase. Modern gasoline engines, he felt they aren't warranted. He did say, if you like low "leakdown" numbers on a gauge, they are the ring for you. I mentioned to him, that dan (icdedppl) and I, have supercharged bbc pump gas marine engines, 800-900hp, and are running Plasma moly file fit rings, he said "perfect, thats exactly what I would recommend for that) so it wasn't like he was trying to promote his product to us.

Mahle supplies many of the OEM's with pistons and ring packages. He had a time chart, that showed how piston ring technology has evolved over the years, from a durability standpoint. Where in 1970, it was typical to burn 1qt of oil per 1500-3000 miles. By 1985, 1qt per 4000-5000 miles, and 2010, 1 qt per 7500-10,000 miles in engines. These evolutions, had nothing to do with ring gap, but instead with ring tension, radial wall/thickness, and so on.

They supply pistons and rings to the factory race cars, like the hemi and copo camaro, etc. Considering the amount of money that General motors, Daimler chrysler, Ford Moco, BMW, Honda, and all of them have behind them, I would like to think that if the gapless patented total seal piston ring design, worked so great, that they would easily cut a check to the owner of total seal, and send him off into retirement, along with his great grandchildren. Mahle's aftermarket division, has 22 locations world wide, and did 836 million in sales in 2014, with 1600 employees.

Does anyone know of an OEM vehicle, that is using total seal gapless rings in their engines?

mike tkach

iTrader: (3)

i have used a lot of the total seal gapless rings with good results BUT i also have used their ap file fit rings with the same results so for me i am kind of getting away from the gapless rings because i am not seing a gain from spending the extra 200 bucks,plus it is more work with the gapless ring and you really need to take your time when installing the piston.jmo.

mike tkach

iTrader: (3)

joe,i will also add that i have seen the equipment that gm&ford are using to bore&hone the cylinders and unless you are made of money no shop could afford to buy that equipment.almost all the gm engines are built by robots&million dollar machines these days.i remember when in the 60s&70s the factory rings were junk before 100 thousand miles,today the cylinder finish and ring material they they put out will last damn near forever.hell i have a 2003 gmc 2500 with a 6L in it with over 150 thousand miles on it and i beat the snot out of it,i change the oil every 5000 miles and it is not even a half quart low at 5000 miles.

MILD THUNDER

iTrader: (3)

crazy isn't it mike. My last two ford 4.6 engines, one had 240k , other 170k. Neither of them consumed oil. Of course far cry from a high perf marine engine, but still cool .

Something I noticed about the 2008 Hemi I have. First engine lasted to 192k miles, before it dropped a valve seat. Weird thing, for like the first 50k miles or so, it would burn at least a quart between oil changes. Sometimes even more. At some point, I don't recall when, I switched from 5w20, to 5w30. I noticed it had stopped using oil between changes.

Anyhow, after the engine expired, I got a new (not reman) engine for it. It now has 30k miles on it. Changed the oil yesterday, and it was down almost 2 qts. Had about 5-6k miles on it. I had used synthetic 5w20 since the new engine went in. I am thinking of trying the 5w30 again, and see if the oil consumption decreases like it did on the first engine.

mike tkach

iTrader: (3)

i can tell you that my 2012 honda accord calls for 0w20.i noticed it would use a quart or so in 5000 miles,for chits&giggles i tried 5w30 and it used no oil.the car stays in the heated garage most of the time so i am going to stick with the 5w30.with the 0w20 it would blow a puff of smoke upon startup,i don,t see that with the 5w30,i forgot to mention i use mobil one in all my late model cars.i am thinking honda calls for the 0w20 to help gas mileage numbers,idk.

getrdunn

iTrader: (7)

Good info guys. Doesn't get discussed much and valuable information for everyone. Btw joe 240k pretty good for a ford. Lol... John Sr would disagree but he's a Ford guy.

compedgemarine

I think one of the problems with recommended oil is that the manufacturer is forced to meet fuel mileage and EPA standards so that helps get them there. my '96 GMC 3500 7.4 gas motor has had 15-50 mobile 1 synthetic since it was new and now with 280,000 hard miles it still holds the same oil pressure as new and uses less than a quart every 5000 or so. as for the gapless rings, if they were that great an improvement then, as said above, the OEM's would be all over them to help meet the mileage and exhaust standards.

Nova Rob

I think your all on the right track. For a short time Audi ran a loose piston to wall clearance with low tension rings to meet carb standards, they where using a lot oil, customers that barked the loudest got new pistons and rings. They have to be making a killing on those cars to cover such a bold move. Mike tKach post, it fits cheap way to free up an engine thin oil.

powermizer

I built a couple of 509's for a friends Campion chase. I hate to say this, I have never done this before and will never do it again, long story. Both engines were built exactly the same except for rings. I had Plasma moly file to fit in one engine and total seals file to fit gapless rings in the other. After we broke them in, we gave them a wide open run. He said what's up? I have to throttle back the port engine to keep them in sink. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I had put the gapless rings in the port engine and not the other. I had built the engines the first go around with molly rings and they didn't have this issue. That is the only real test I have.

Nova Rob

file to fit gapless?? boy am I behind the times, tonight is the first time I have heard of a gap less ring. Gonna give my Mech friends a poke. That sounds intreging except for the file fit, I'm frigen sick of fileling rings.