What Procharger Should I Use?
 

Now it is time to buy the prochargers for my twin 1200 hp build.I do not have too much space in the engine area so I am worried about mounting
2 prochargers that will not fit.I am thinking it is best to get a self contained procharger not one that has a oil line going to the procharger,
or would you not agree.Give me your thoughts on what procharger to use.I am thinking about the M3SC or M4SC

http://i.imgur.com/4ocLh3U.png

I would say M4 but I'm biased... ;)
Not sure about the "SC" may be a better choice


People HAVE done it with an M3 but you'd be wringing the heck out of it..

There was a build on Performance Boats with an M5 and he had issues with lack of boost on the bottom then coming on WAY too hard...

I'm making 1020 hp with 10lbs of boost on a 555 cid engine.. running the second biggest pulley they make .. (blower is spinning 80% capacity)

Could easily do WAY more but my pocketbook just can't support it..



https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...12acc5e9ba.jpg

The M3 is to small, M4sc would work well, if you think you will ever want more than 1200 then go with the M5sc. Use the biggest intercooler that will fit your application, just my opinion.

What does your engine builder recommend? What will he warranty? That is the one I'd use.

Here you can see my space.I am worried about how the procharger goes to one side always, when you see it installed it is always going over to the right side and this will be a problem for the port side instalation because to the left there is not much space. Can you get a procharger bracket that moves the parts to the left side?

http://i.imgur.com/S5ASCPW.png

Looks like you should leave it alone.

But I have to do it,
2 x 800 hp carbureted is nothing like 2 x 1200 fuel injected. Roots to procharger change- power more efficient, less iat heat, less fuel use and more benefits to go faster and be more reliable

I ran Prochargers, I loved them, doubt you'll save fuel just go a lot faster. You'll want to run the M5 intercoolers, have fun !

is the m5 a front mount or mounts like the others on the side

is the m5 a front mount or mounts like the others on the side

Using the Procharger mount, it's like the others, you may be able to just flip the M5 bracket over to the other side, I'm not sure. There are a couple companies making front mounts. Steve Morris used to do a lot of work with the Prochargers not sure if he still does, he may have some info for you. Are you talking about the intercooler or the blower ?

Id much rather replace those roots with a set of 5 or 8.3 liter whipples.

what kind of roots setup do you have there only making 800hp with those blowers? 454s?

The engines were built 8 years ago when parts and knowledge about building engines was not as fancy as it is here n this forum, in 2018. The engines are supposed to be 572

Also the whipple blower has to use that intercooler that is on top of the intake area, that is one of the hotest areas so that type of intercooling is not as efficent as the procharger intercooler setup where the intrecooler is on the side, not in a hotsauna on top of the engine.

I am thinking a procharger m4 or m4sc not sure which one, I want to know if I can use the same exhausts
http://i.imgur.com/4WKwg9D.jpg?1

Won't fit with that exhaust if you side mount it.... I'm running Eddie Marine manifolds and it's close....


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...0323840fb6.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...fe74952a30.jpg

a whipple, with a good intercooler, like the Moac, is very capable at keepng IAT's in check.

im running a overdriven roots with a basic superchiller, and iat temps barely over 100 degrees . I have seen some big power procharger builds that run well, but they have had some huge custom built intercoolers with huge water lines feeding them.

My bud's 557's 8.3 Whipples made 1300+ without race fuel, MOAC coolers

and all one needs to do is go to the big poker runs, and look whats powering the big skaters, mti's, outerlimits, nortechs and so on, with custom power. You wont see many prochargers thats for sure. But you will see quite a few screw blower setups.

I know one thing, my buddys M4 head unit could have fried an egg on it after a couple dyno pulls making 1200ish hp. Then there was the belt slip issues, bracket flex issues, and so on. Ill take a whipple anyday , and i bet anyone whos driven a 1200hp procharged setup and a 1200hp whipple setup in a BOAT , would agree.

Check out this typical internet garbage. They are claiming a roots has a discharge temp of 241 degrees. Id love to know what roots blower they were using!?

non intercooled 10-71 at steady state 5500 plus rpm on the water, 140ish degrees real world. Intercooled , 100-115* intake temperatures.

this is the kind of advertising crap that misinforms people. If roots and screws were so inefficient, why do we see them on Hellcats, corvettes, mustangs, and other oem vehicles, rather than a belt driven centrifugal?

https://vortechsuperchargers.com/pages/centrifugal-vs-roots-type-superchargershttps://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...156d0d28e4.png

and the EFI Whipples with the HP Holley ecu's idle like a 502......:drink:

Heres a good read . He makes a good point about the location of the IAT sensor. Many times its in the piping after the intercooler on a centrifugal, and on a roots/screw, its in the actual intake manifold. It be interesting to see both setups taking readings in the actual intake manifold before the air enters the cylinder.

Hes absolutely right on how at cruising, you get higher iat temps , because the air inside the intake is being recirculated. But as soon as you go wide open, that air gets flushed down the toilet basically. Ive seen that on dyno pulls and on the water with roots. The gauge plummets when the throttles are opened fully.

http://www.departmentofboost.com/tech/intake_air_temp_tech.htm

Ok you are making good points with quality information here. I want to ask what would be the ideal whipple charger and huge intercooler, to get below 100*
yes 100

Eddie young could answer that. I recall him saying on some whipple setups he's built, he sees less than 100* iat temps.

whipple makes the standard intercooler, MOAC, FOAC, and Dennis Parvey was making some killer intercoolers as well.

http://www.pfintercoolers.com/site/43bf9df3ebae4bb48898122507ce8712

http://www.cpperformance.com/c-828-intercoolers.aspx

Sorry, but that's not true. Whipple's intercooler is made from CuNi. Procharger uses an aluminum core. The CuNi is extremely expensive. However, they use it for a reason. That's because it has some of the best heat transfer abilities of any other suitable material. Plus you have the fuel going through the blower as well. I've had them form ice on top of the blower, even in summer.
If you do a front mount Procharger, you will kill ALL of your forward working room. You will play hell getting to the outside of the engines.

To make 1200 hp with a Whipple on a 572 is pretty brain dead. All it takes is a 4.0L and a MOAC. However, if you think that you may want more, go to a 4.5L. There is no need to use anything larger than a MOAC intercooler.

Your IAT will depend on ambient air and lake water temp. There is really no way to say that temps will be X on any given day. They will vary.

They will idle better, run better, not sound like a rock crusher at idle, etc. with a Whipple. The vast majority of my customer could care less what I use to make the power, whether it be a Whipple, roots, Procharger, turbo, etc. They want to know how much it costs, how much power it will make and will it live. So, I pretty much have free reign to do whatever I want. I do build Procharged engines, as well as Roots on a semi regular basis. However, 95% of them get a Whipple.There are several good reasons for that.

We would be glad to help or set you up with what you need. You can reach me anytime at 615-216-7449
Eddie

This is another thing I was thinking about,If you have to push or suck the sir through the intercooler mounted on te intake area below the whipple does this not make alot of resistance, well I am talking about this kind of intercooler below, would this hurt performance? all the air through that small square and then there is that mesh there also?

http://i.imgur.com/LO4FV3y.jpg?1

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...38dd08476b.jpg
that pic is of an automotive cooler, here's one of mine, no need to second guess the Whipple blowers their a proven reliable product.

You sure do make every aspect of a traditional build difficult and over complicated.

Agreed. This is a very simple build at the end of the day. We do this on pretty much a daily basis. Hell, I just finished up (3) 555 CI engines with 4L Whipples. 2 of them were part of a pair and a single. All were on pump gas with an hydraulic roller. All of them ran less than 9 psi of boost and all made over 1100 hp at 6000 rpm. The pair made 1125 and 1132 hp.
Eddie

To answer your question to make 1200 HP I use an M5 the MB1250CSCefi package we offer is a 540 CI based engine and makes 1288 hp @5600 RPM and 1300 Ft lbs @5600 RPM
this is on REC 91 marine fuel at 10 PSI boost. There's been lots said about Procharger engines not making good torque numbers on the bottom compared to other blower set ups this package
makes over 1000 ft lbs everywhere above 1800 RPM and the torque never falls off , the torque and HP will climb all the way to 6000 RPM . I've used smaller units and feel this is the best
for the power you're looking for. We also build roots, whipple, turbo engines as well depending the application . Best of luck Laz Mesa

https://scontent-mia3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...4d&oe=5B4495D2

https://scontent-mia3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...69&oe=5B0B4960

https://scontent-mia3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...3a&oe=5B40FA0B

https://www.procharger.com/how-much-...-add-my-engine
Prochargers website explains boost vs hp .

we know theoretically, adding 14.7 psi of boost to a typical pump gas engine, will double its naturally aspirated output, minus any losses from parasitic, etc.

To make 1260hp, with 10psi, textbook says the engine would need to make 750hp naturally aspirated. Again, minus parasitic losses.

procharger states, to gain 100% power increase with a 9.5:1 compression, intercooled pump gas engine, it typically takes 17psi of boost to do so. Im assuming the extra 2 psi of boost is needed to make up for parasitic losses.

a friend built a m4 procharged 522ci. It made around 1200 or 1250 on the dyno with 17psi. If what procharger says is true, that engine should have made approx 600hp in NA form. Which, is prob really close, for a 522ci with edelbrock heads, decent hyd roller, etc.

dart has a neat airflow(boost) vs hp calculator as well

It is hard to know which way to go whipple or procharger.I have not heard of whipple doubling the horsepower even with 17 psi.My 602 with all the good stuff and "Young" heads should be 900 hp, so if this procharger math is right with 17 psi I could have 1800 hp engines! I would only use about 7-9 psi so maybe we could say 1400 hp? 1400 x 2 I like it
the main thing for me is if the make a procharger mount bracket to mount the prochager going the other way not up to the right but to the left

I just asked a friend of mine who is one of the top tuners @ ProCharger and he said right side only

+++

The bolts that hold the compressor to the bracket use socket head bolts that are counter-bored into the mounting plate, so you can't flip it around.

So then maybe I have to use whipple.The biggest one I saw is a 8.3 whipple with two rotors inside and there is another one that has 2 rotors outside and I think 4 rotors inside.Does anyone here know about that model.I think it cost about 14,000 usd.double head or pulley whipple.Is that one bigger than the 8.3 ?

Whipple Big Block Chevy Tall Deck EFI, Standard Intercooler Kit, 16 Rib (2) 200ci, V-Belt, Polished Finish - Hardin Marine

That's called a quadrotor. It's simply 2 superchargers on 1 intake. You don't need a quadrotor to make 1200. As I mentioned previously, a single 4L will get you there. If you want room to grow, then go with a 4.5L. The 4L with a MOAC intercooler is right around 10K. The 4.5L is a little bit more, but not that much. I've used the 4L to make 1200 on a 598 with a moderate hydraulic roller cam and moderate heads. Nothing fancy.

Here is what a 4L quadrotor can do at just under 17 psi of boost. This one is 582 ci, killer heads, 55MM solid roller, on race gas.