650HP NA exhaust question.
10-30-2019 | 02:56 PM
#21
Registered
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,310
Likes: 1,817
From: Merritt Island, FL
Yup. The Diamond Performace/KE Thunder-N-Lightning have 1 3/4"x 34" pirmary runners. Collectors are 4" and you make the collector length.
Collector length starts on the Diamond marine/KE's where from where tail bolts to manifold and then ends on outside end of transom exhaust tip., Most marine 502's-540's want 18-20"collector lengths.
http://www.diamondperformanceparts.c...age=1&featured
See Diamond Marine pic under this dimension info.
Here is Pipemax on a 502 i entered with a Crane 741 cam and 5800rpm max rpmpower.
--- Single Primary Pipe Specs --- for 502.176 CID from 3800 to 6300 RPM
Diameter= 1.899 to 2.024
Length= 33.7 to 36.7 inches long
--- 2-Step Primary Pipe Specs ---
1st Dia. inches= 1.899 Length= 16.9 to 18.4
2nd Dia. inches= 2.024 Length= 16.9 to 18.4
--- 3-Step Primary Pipe Specs ---
1st Dia. inches= 1.899 Length= 16.9 to 18.4
2nd Dia. inches= 2.024 Length= 8.4 to 9.2
3rd Dia. inches= 2.149 Length= 8.4 to 9.2
--- Header Collector Specs (Conventional Straight Tube) ---
Diameter= 3.466 to 3.716
Tuned Lengths= 19.4 best and also 9.7 or 38.8
--- Header Collector Specs (Megaphone or Diffuser Cone Shape) ---
Diameter= 2.966 taper to 3.966 Megaphone/Diffuser Length= 19.4 inches
Best HP/TQ Tuned Collector Lengths= 19.4 , 38.8 , 77.6 , 155.2 inches long
Worst HP/TQ Loss Collector Lengths= 29.1 , 58.2 , 116.4 , 232.8 inches long
Note-> all Pipe Diameters are OD and based-off .0625 inch Pipe thickness
---- Primary Pipe's Harmonics ----
1st Harmonic = 149.4 inches long ... typically never used
2nd Harmonic = 56.5 inches long ... longest recommended
3rd Harmonic = 33.7 inches long ... highly recommended , best Torque Curve
4th Harmonic = 23.4 inches long ... shortest recommended
5th Harmonic = 17.5 inches long ... typically never used
6th Harmonic = 13.8 inches long ... typically never used
7th Harmonic = 11.1 inches long ... typically never used
8th Harmonic = 9.2 inches long ... typically never used
---- Collector's Harmonics (includes Intermediate, Muffler , TailPipe) ----
1st Harmonic = 155.2 inches long ... longest with Mufflers and TailPipes
Note: Worst = 116.4 inches long for HP/TQ Loss
2nd Harmonic = 77.6 inches long ... longest recommended with Mufflers
Note: Worst = 58.2 inches long for HP/TQ Loss
3rd Harmonic = 38.8 inches long ... more bottom-end Torque
Note: Worst = 29.1 inches long for HP/TQ Loss
4th Harmonic = 19.4 inches long ... highly recommended , best Torque Curve
5th Harmonic = 9.7 inches long ... reduced Torque , more top-end HP sometimes
6th Harmonic = 4.9 inches long ... reduced Torque , not recommended
Collector length starts on the Diamond marine/KE's where from where tail bolts to manifold and then ends on outside end of transom exhaust tip., Most marine 502's-540's want 18-20"collector lengths.http://www.diamondperformanceparts.c...age=1&featured
See Diamond Marine pic under this dimension info.
Here is Pipemax on a 502 i entered with a Crane 741 cam and 5800rpm max rpmpower.
--- Single Primary Pipe Specs --- for 502.176 CID from 3800 to 6300 RPM
Diameter= 1.899 to 2.024
Length= 33.7 to 36.7 inches long
--- 2-Step Primary Pipe Specs ---
1st Dia. inches= 1.899 Length= 16.9 to 18.4
2nd Dia. inches= 2.024 Length= 16.9 to 18.4
--- 3-Step Primary Pipe Specs ---
1st Dia. inches= 1.899 Length= 16.9 to 18.4
2nd Dia. inches= 2.024 Length= 8.4 to 9.2
3rd Dia. inches= 2.149 Length= 8.4 to 9.2
--- Header Collector Specs (Conventional Straight Tube) ---
Diameter= 3.466 to 3.716
Tuned Lengths= 19.4 best and also 9.7 or 38.8
--- Header Collector Specs (Megaphone or Diffuser Cone Shape) ---
Diameter= 2.966 taper to 3.966 Megaphone/Diffuser Length= 19.4 inches
Best HP/TQ Tuned Collector Lengths= 19.4 , 38.8 , 77.6 , 155.2 inches long
Worst HP/TQ Loss Collector Lengths= 29.1 , 58.2 , 116.4 , 232.8 inches long
Note-> all Pipe Diameters are OD and based-off .0625 inch Pipe thickness
---- Primary Pipe's Harmonics ----
1st Harmonic = 149.4 inches long ... typically never used
2nd Harmonic = 56.5 inches long ... longest recommended
3rd Harmonic = 33.7 inches long ... highly recommended , best Torque Curve
4th Harmonic = 23.4 inches long ... shortest recommended
5th Harmonic = 17.5 inches long ... typically never used
6th Harmonic = 13.8 inches long ... typically never used
7th Harmonic = 11.1 inches long ... typically never used
8th Harmonic = 9.2 inches long ... typically never used
---- Collector's Harmonics (includes Intermediate, Muffler , TailPipe) ----
1st Harmonic = 155.2 inches long ... longest with Mufflers and TailPipes
Note: Worst = 116.4 inches long for HP/TQ Loss
2nd Harmonic = 77.6 inches long ... longest recommended with Mufflers
Note: Worst = 58.2 inches long for HP/TQ Loss
3rd Harmonic = 38.8 inches long ... more bottom-end Torque
Note: Worst = 29.1 inches long for HP/TQ Loss
4th Harmonic = 19.4 inches long ... highly recommended , best Torque Curve
5th Harmonic = 9.7 inches long ... reduced Torque , more top-end HP sometimes
6th Harmonic = 4.9 inches long ... reduced Torque , not recommended
10-30-2019 | 03:59 PM
#23
Registered
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,860
Likes: 793
From: St. Pete Beach, FL
E85, going to build one and dyno it to see IF i can get the BSFC reasonable with the compression increase. My theory is, a 500 efi on my dyno is at about .580 at wot, most whippled 2.3/3.3 93 octane motors i dyno head towards .680 on top. IF i can build a compression motor that has bsfcs in the .450 range on 105 gas and bsfcs in the .620 to..650 range on e85, the range of my boat won't really be much less than if I went with whipples. We'll see!
Ive seen some claims that 100LL is guaranteed 100+, so it’s typically higher. And the fact that there’s no lead means that if you add some, it’s jumps up significantly. Unfortunately octane testing is expensive.
10-30-2019 | 04:03 PM
#24
Registered
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,860
Likes: 793
From: St. Pete Beach, FL
10-31-2019 | 11:35 AM
#26
Registered
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,860
Likes: 793
From: St. Pete Beach, FL
https://www.edelbrock.com/fuel-rail-...nish-3659.html
If you don’t want to have any welding and machining done.
10-31-2019 | 02:59 PM
#27
Frank's Marine Service
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,959
Likes: 142
From: Elkton, MD
Lot of good information here.
On the original post where CMI's were mentioned, were you looking at full-length CMI's or E-Tops? If you were considering E-tops I would point you in a different direction and over to the Stainless Marine Gen II's. Minimal power difference from the E-top to the Gen II and a LOT more longevity. I've seen too many tailpipe failures over the years with EMI's. You can also get the SM taippipes stepped to full 4 1/2" if you want to make a little extra power.
If you're talking full-length headers, go with Diamon's Thunder n Lightning hands down. CMI's are too leak/failure prone from my experience. They look great but 7-10 yrs from now you could be chasing issues.
I have customers, myself included, with all of the above listed exhaust systems and by far everyone has been most satisfied with Stainless Marine II / III and Thunder n Lightning.
On the original post where CMI's were mentioned, were you looking at full-length CMI's or E-Tops? If you were considering E-tops I would point you in a different direction and over to the Stainless Marine Gen II's. Minimal power difference from the E-top to the Gen II and a LOT more longevity. I've seen too many tailpipe failures over the years with EMI's. You can also get the SM taippipes stepped to full 4 1/2" if you want to make a little extra power.
If you're talking full-length headers, go with Diamon's Thunder n Lightning hands down. CMI's are too leak/failure prone from my experience. They look great but 7-10 yrs from now you could be chasing issues.
I have customers, myself included, with all of the above listed exhaust systems and by far everyone has been most satisfied with Stainless Marine II / III and Thunder n Lightning.
11-01-2019 | 07:58 AM
#28
Platinum Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,317
Likes: 1,037
From: frankenmuth michigan
Lot of good information here.
On the original post where CMI's were mentioned, were you looking at full-length CMI's or E-Tops? If you were considering E-tops I would point you in a different direction and over to the Stainless Marine Gen II's. Minimal power difference from the E-top to the Gen II and a LOT more longevity. I've seen too many tailpipe failures over the years with EMI's. You can also get the SM taippipes stepped to full 4 1/2" if you want to make a little extra power.
If you're talking full-length headers, go with Diamon's Thunder n Lightning hands down. CMI's are too leak/failure prone from my experience. They look great but 7-10 yrs from now you could be chasing issues.
I have customers, myself included, with all of the above listed exhaust systems and by far everyone has been most satisfied with Stainless Marine II / III and Thunder n Lightning.
On the original post where CMI's were mentioned, were you looking at full-length CMI's or E-Tops? If you were considering E-tops I would point you in a different direction and over to the Stainless Marine Gen II's. Minimal power difference from the E-top to the Gen II and a LOT more longevity. I've seen too many tailpipe failures over the years with EMI's. You can also get the SM taippipes stepped to full 4 1/2" if you want to make a little extra power.
If you're talking full-length headers, go with Diamon's Thunder n Lightning hands down. CMI's are too leak/failure prone from my experience. They look great but 7-10 yrs from now you could be chasing issues.
I have customers, myself included, with all of the above listed exhaust systems and by far everyone has been most satisfied with Stainless Marine II / III and Thunder n Lightning.
11-02-2019 | 07:25 AM
#29
Registered
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 943
Likes: 277
From: So. Burl. VT.
565 cu in. Using harden marine replacement header for the gils. Original tails no reversion. These were 525 efi clones, our biggest hp gain came with the intakes. My suggestion would be go at least 540 cu in and if possible 565.
