[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ratchet
[B]Point well taken. Like I said, I think the rev kits help keep the wheel pressed on the cam, rolling. My friend built 3 540 blower motors for a 43 scarab. They made 1050 HP. They ran mobil 1 in there and after pokker-running for a couple of seeasons, the motors were tore down with no issues.........Heck, the main & rod bearings looked like new, and they never had any issues with the valvetrain. Just what I've seen.

Ratchet, I'm not really questioning a synthetic oil's ability to properly lubricate the rest of the engine's parts like bearings, etc. I was specifically speaking about how a roller lifter and its internal parts(SOLID OR HYDRAULIC) functions on the roller cam lobes while using a synthetic oil! I am convinced that a synthetic oil is superior over a mineral based oil when it come to lubercating an engine's parts and if I was using a flat tappet cam I would already be using a synthetic oil. The issue I am speaking of here is the relationship between the ROLLER LIFTER and the CAM LOBE as it rolls, glides, slips or whatever it does as the roller lifter rides over the roller cam lobe. Therefore, I take it that your friend with the tripple blown 540's was running either a solid or hydraulic roller cam-----correct? If so, then I am glad to hear that he has hay good success while using a synthetic and it just re-enforces my decision to use a synthetic oil in MY roller equipt engine as well.

Thanks, I just need to hear testamonials like your friend's! :)

Kaama,

Yep, They're runnin solid rollers........I forgot the numbers, I know they're over .700 though.

Like I said, I run it in mine too........even though they're small blocks, they're still.600 solid rollers. After almost 400 hours, they looked great. I personally think the key is keepin the roller in contact with the lobe.

Great posts all !

well this helps, not as:confused:
will add the AMSOIL, currently living
in the garage, this spring.
great post:) :) :)

AMSOIL It is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kaama/The Kendal GT1 and Valvoline Racing are both mineral based.

I think I will give the Amsoil a go. :)

Or you could try water. You and I know someone that's done that with amazing results. Kinda like that slant 6 Chrysler engine with no oil pan and a water hose rinsing it down.:rolleyes:

Ha Ha
 

Crazy...........you been watchin some late nite TV ?

So how many bottles of Z-max did you order ?

Just kiddin :D Couldn't resist.

CRAZ
 

Sould I use salt water or fresh, what about bottled,:D :D :D :D

Snake Oil?
 

Hey,
I know lots of guys that have tried to run their marine engines on water. Its not just late night TV slant six engines! Made a few bucks off em too!
Dennis Moore
Merc Master Tech

Re: Snake Oil?
 

And there you have it !

SYNTHETIC IS THE WAY TO GO,,, NEW VETTE ARE SHIPPED WITH IT AND VIPERS :D
THE VETTES ON THE STREET AND IN LIKE THE 24 HRS AT DAYTONA HAVE NO ,NO TROUBLE WITH LIFTERS( ITS A TALE FROM THE OLD SCHOOLERS THAT THE LIFTERS SLIDE ) AND EVERYTHING COMES OUT LIKE NEW AFTER A RACE AND THE STREET CARS GO FOR EVER ,CHEVY AND DODGE WOULD NOT PUT THE SYTH. IN IF IT WAS JUNK ,THEY KNOW IT WILL HELP THE MOTORS LAST AND SAVE WARRANTY CLAIMS

THE SYNTHTIC OF TODAY IS HANDS DOWN TOUGHER AT NOT BREAKING DOWN UNDER HEAT OR COLD AND THE SHEAR VISCOSITY IS TONS BETTER THE THE BEST EARTH OIL THEY DO NOT COMPARE :D :D :D

IF EVERYTHING IS PERFECT (WHICH IS USUALY NEVER) THE EARTH OILS WILL DO FINE BUT FOR HEAVY LOADS ,HIGH TEMPS.OR ENDURANCE RUNS WHERE YOU WANT THAT ADDED SAFTEY GO WITH SYN.
LOOK AT THE BALL WEAR TEST WHERE THEY MAKE AND OIL BATH IN DIFFERENT OILS AND SPIN A BEARING IN IT WITH A HEAVY LOAD AND A SHARP CUTTER PUSHING DOWN ON THE BEARING THE CONV. OIL WILL ALWAYS LEAVE A BIG SCAR AND THE MOBILE ONE OR RED LINE ,ECT WILL NOT .
ITS THE ONLY WAY TO PROTECT YOUR MAJOR INVESTMENT ,DON'T SCRIMP ON OIL ,MAN :confused::D

:d:d:d
 

BUT BUT
Water is so much cheaper :D :D :D just kidding

BOY IS IT CHEAPER !!!!:D :D :D

bobby daniels,
I agree 100%. My son is an engine builder at the engine development company that builds the 7.0 liter small blocks that go into the C5R Corvettes that won the 24 hrs of Daytona, and LeMans and the American LeMans Series. They can use any oil they want and they and GM choose Mobil One. Other synthetics are as good I'm sure, i.e. Red Line, Royal Purple etc, but for twice the price, are you getting twice the quality of oil? Like I said before, I think Mobil One is the best bang for your synthetic buck:)

BOY I AGREE THERE IS A GROUP THAT CAN TRULY USE WHAT THEY WANT AND GO WITH THE MOBILE ONE ,THEY USE KILLER FILTERS AND KEEP IT CHANGED BUT FOR THE WEAR AND OTHER PROTECTION THEY DON'T SCRIMP ON THE ENGINES BLOOD !!:D :D

sidenote:
 

Guys, I can't remember where I saw it, but there was a bearing scar test...........most likely in a hot rod, or some other magazine.

One of the things I recall was that they used 2 versions of Mobile1. There was the original, and a Tri-synthetic. The original one actually scored better than the newer one (tr-synthetic). At first, I didn't even know there was an old & a new version. So I dug up an old bottle I had, and sure enough, it did not say tri-synthetic on it..........where the newer one did.

I spoke to a person who sold amsoil, and he said they changed 2 years ago (Mobile1)

Anyone else know anything about this ?

Re: sidenote:
 

Ratchet, yes, I've been told by someone I know who lives over in the Detroit area that the newer version of the Mobil-1 is NOT as good as the original. He told me that GM is using Mobil-1 and about 2 years ago GM wanted the Mobil-1 made to their own (GM's) specs which has cheapened the quality of the oil. I heard this from a guy who uses an engine builder over in the Detroit area that has at times done some R&D on the dyno for GM---he know's the engineers there. The engine builder once recommended the Mobil-1, but since the change he told him (the guy I know) not to use the it. He switched to something like Valvoline or Amsoil full synthetic oil.

IN MID 2003 PRODUCTION G.M. WILL US PRIVATE LABEL AMSOIL
AS I UNDERSTAND MOBILE DID NOT WANT TO SWITCH FORMULA
THEY ARE BOTH GOOD THE TRI FORMULA DID FAR BETTER IN SOME PARTS OF TEST THAN THEIR OLD BLEND BUT DID ON THE SCAR TEST SHOW LOWER YOUR RIGHT BUT EVEN IT WAS FAR SUPIEROR TO CONV. OILS ,,,,SEE YA

496 mag ho
 

anyone know if this motor has a roller cam and roller rockers? I am a believer in Syn oil but the issue of wear does concern me:rolleyes:

I'm an "Amsoil" guy and yesterday I got the new copy of their rag. It has a full page with 3-4 different tests comparing Amsoil to Mobil-1 Tri-Syn. If anyone is interested I can try to scan and post.

Oh and yes, Amsoil came out on top in each test. :D

::EDIT::

Ok, I don't have to scan anything, it's on their website:

Amsoil vs. Mobil 1

Re: 496 mag ho
 

IT IS FOR SURE A ROLLER MOTOR ,SYN IS THE ONLY THING I'D USE IN IT ,IT WILL PROTECT IT JUST LIKE THE C5R AND LS1 VETTE ROLLER MOTORS COME FROM FACTORY AND BUILDERS AS WE TALKED ABOUT ABOVE ,,HOPE THIS HELPS :D :D :D

This was a different comparison that I saw, but thanks for the info !

BOTH ARE GOOD OILS MUCH BETTER THAN CONV.,

BUY AND USE EITHER ONE :D :D :D

Does Mobil 1 "slip past the rings" on older engines,I had a car loose 2 qts from NYC to the Hamptons,next weekend I had Rotella in it and didn't loose a drop!?

HEY SIX ,ALL OIL BUILDS DEPOSITS AROUND RINGS ,ECT. AND IF YOU CHANGE THE DEPOSIT FROM ONE OIL MAYBE CLEANED BY THE NEW OILS DETERGENTS AND THE MOTOR WILL FOR SURE USE OIL FOR A PERIOD OF TIME UNTIL THE NEW OIL CAN BUILD UP ITS OWN DEPOSITS AND THUS SEAL OFF THE CONDITION ,SO THIS WAS A GREAT QUESTION :D
IF YOU KEEP USING THE NEW OIL IT WILL STOP THERE ARE ALLOT OF THINGS THAT DETERMINE HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE THE MOST IMPORTANT BEING HOW MANY MILES OR HRS. ON MOTOR BUT IT WILL STOP !!
SYN. ALL SAY COMPATABLE WITH ALL OILS AND THEY USUALLY DON'T DO THIS ,BUT IT STILL HAPPENS ALLOT

HOPE THIS HELPS HAVE A GOOD ONE :D :D :D

Thanks Bobby,it's a 1988 Mecedes 190E with 60,000, I'm postive I filled the engine to the full mark but after the trip the yellow oil light(not the red one) on the dash blinked on a turn,two qt's low!!

YEP M/B ARE KNOW FOR THIS THEY ARE KILLER CARS THOUGH ,IT WILL STOP USEING IT IF YOU LEAVE IT IN OR USE AN HAVE SYN.
AND HALF CONV. LIKE VALVOLINE MAKES IT SHOULD WORK BETTER YET STILL GIVE GREAT PROTECTION
SEE YA :D

I too have been running Kendall GT-1 40wt. and have a moisture problem. Changed oil and filter frequently and run a Mercury Racing oil thermostat. I have installed two oil temp sending units and a switch to monitor oil temp at hottest point (into thermostat) and coolest point (out of cooler). This thermostat appears to work perfectly and starts to open at 170-180* (it is never fully closed and some oil is always routed through the cooler). When running hard I have seen a 50-60* difference from hot side to cold side (260* hot and 210-230* cold) so yes folks, the coolers do work.

Sorry, back to the moisture problem. I had noticed milky oil on upper portion of the dipstick but saw no other evidence of moisture and thought it was just condensation trapped in the dipstick tube since it's not vented. When I tore the engine down for freshen-up there was considerable moisture evident under the valve covers and in the valley. I went to great pains to thoroughly test for every possibe cause. Both sides of block (GM Bowtie) were good. (Even tested blind headbolt bores for pinholes.) Heads (aluminum and machined for Loc Wire gaskets) were tank tested and defect free. At disassembly, the intake gasket appeared completely sealed with no signs of failure. Oil cooler also tested OK. Engine (540 inch/630HP N.A.) has a good breather setup but no PCV valve.

Basically, we could find no reason for the moisture other than condensation. But, with the above mentioned oil temps, condensation should not be an issue. Now I'm wondering if the formulation of the Kendall GT-1 might be contributing to, if not causing the problem? I'd sure like to hear from anyone with ideas/similar experience.:confused: :confused: :confused:

Dr.Nautica,

I was just curious of what kind of aluminum heads you are running, valve size, what kind of port work if any, and what the specs were on the cam? The reason why I am asking is because my 540's made the same HP as yours @5400rpm (on the dyno) last year and I just wanted to compare notes a little. Thanks

BTW, I think I will be switching to Amsoil 10w40 synthetic.

HEY DR.
TRY THE PCV IT WILL USUALY KEEP THE CONDINSATION OUT OF THE MOTOR . AND DID YOU PRESSURE TEST THE WHOLE MOTOR ?

KAMMA ,AMSOIL MAKES A MARINE AND DIESEL 10W40 THAT IS KILLER AND THEIR 20/ 50 RACE OIL SERIES 2000 IS GREAT ALSO

HAVE A GOOD ONE GUYS :D :D

Dr. I also run Kendal GT1 with bell housing coolers and KE 215 degree thermos. I never had any condensation problems during normal weather but when I was running in November in 60 degree air temps, probably 50 + degree water, I did notice some condensation in oil. I figured I did not get oli hot enough? In summer months all looks fine.

Roller Cams and slippery oil
 

Just a thought for all this "too slippery for roller cams" stuff. If ANYTHING makes metal to metal contact it's bad. When the roller contacts the beginning of the up ramp it's possible that the oil film may be squeezed out and the roller is nothing more than a safety net. If the roller never touched the cam lobe and never rolled, it would be no worse than a flat tappet cam. The only time abnormal wear would occur was if the roller did squeeze the oil film out and the roller actually contacted the cam and the surface area would be smaller than a flat tappet so some wierd wear could occur. Not Likely!! Use the syn, it's better by far. Just an opinion.

Spoke to another guy at Crower. They don't recommend synthetics but it has nothing to do with rollers slipping on cams.
I'm no metalurgist but he was talking about the lack of Zinc in synthetics and that is the problem. It was something to do with wear in the lifter bores.
He highly recommended Valvoline since that is one of the last mineral oils that still has Zinc in it.

A friend of mine used to work at Katech (an engine development shop) and I remember him talking about ash in an oil and it either causing detonation or not causing . And either the synthetic having it or not. I just don't remember exactly how it went.

Yep you don't want ash it causes detonation ,,

Aircraft oils main differenxe is it 100% ash less for piston engine planes
As far as zinc I can't say it just hard to understand why only one company would use it if its so good and syn can 't really be compared to conv. oil on a chemical comparison
I'd just go with syn as I truly feel there better than any conv ,we need all the insurance we can get :D :D :D

there are a lot of oils using zinc...valvoline race (.20) just uses more of it..kendal (.16) also uses a hi zinc content as well...

% sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when the oil burns. A high ash content will tend to form more sludge and deposits in the engine. Low ash content also seems to promote long valve life. Look for oils with a low ash content.

you know the new merc 525's come with syn oil from the factory for break-in....as well as many other hi-perf auto do...hummm

oil is like religion to most,,,,they really "feel" it's better....and there is SO MUCH data out there you can make it seem like each one is the best one that has ever been invented!

i have been involved in engine oil analysis over some 10 years working at two different companies...so i'll just say there is a good reason why we use ROYAL PURPLE in everything....i'll leave it at that.

Best ?
 

I run in warm water(Florida), which weight of Synthetic should I buy? I am presently running Valvoline Racing 40wt. I have just fired up this HP 500 20 minutes of engine time. Can I change to synthetic now?
Any input is appreaciated
John

HEY JOHNO !
 

If your going to use syn, go with 15w50 mobile one or 20w50 oil it works year round as it starts as a thin weight and basicly thickens as needed yes its a gret time to switch if you need AMSOIL go online and order it it will come in quick ,,,I like it the best for engines series 2000 race or 15w40 marine and deisel :D :D

Break-in on synthetic
 

Okay,
I was planning on running the Amsoil after my 1st or 2nd hour, but my motor took a serious **** at 1.3 hours. Theres a bad knock deep inside like a Gremlin stuck in there with a big hammer. I guess for some reason I spun a Rod bearing. Oil pressure was good at start with 60psi at 3000rpm & started dropping gradually to 10/20 psi at 1000rpm with the knock. It sucks as I have spared no exspense as I wanted to run it troble free.
Back to my question...can I use the synthetic oil for the intial break in period? I am pulling the motor Sat. Hopefully we'll find what caused the failure.

Yes sir I run it all the time as does G.M.