What motor oil?
 

What oil is everyone using?

I am currently using Valvoline VR1 Racing 40wt in my SBC's
Does anyone have any better suggestions?

Good as any if you don't want to run synthetic. It is a great choice fo regular oil,,, and yes use the staright 40 weight.

ummmm...high zink content

I run Kendell GT-1 40wt in mine 330hp. Charlie

Mobile 1, 15W-50
Best bang for your Synthetic Buck.

I used kendall racing oil at 1st must noticed a condensation problem. After using penzoil racing oil, that white crap went away after the 2nd oil change. The engine's been apart and the bearing were as brand new.

I have been told that synthetic is to "slippery" if you are running a roller cam and lifters and will cause the lifters to not roll on the cam lobes. Anybody else been told this?

Amsoil 10W40 Synthetic.

Yes! I have. I've been told by a couple of engine builders that synthetics are too slick when running a roller cam (solid or hydraulic). I don't really know how true that is though, however I do run a mineral based Valvoline straight 40wt oil that with my hydraulic rollers.

Thrillseeker......I'm running the same, (Val Vr1 40wt), and so far I like it alot.

Pennzoil, straight 30 weight in cold months, straight 40 in summer.

Probably as important, if not more important, the frequency in which you change, and if you change the filter. I've been using the above combo and Fram, yes Fram oil filters (hold the flames please) but change both oil and filter every 40 hours maximum. :D

Keith, any reason on those weights? Also why straight? I use Quicksliver(Merc) 25w40, but its a stock 502mpi. Would you use those weights with higher horsepower applications?

Speaking of Fram. All the hype I have seen has been about the other models Fram has, I have never seen an article on Fram racing filters(HP4 and the rest). Also I believe the editor(i think) from Fam. and Perf mag said that only Merc and Fram filters dont have any flow back, meaning that their is oil trapped in the filter(good when you start up;) ) He is supposed to have a article published soon on oil filters, I guess we will find an answer then.

Over the years where I lived on Lake Michigan, I have usually seen guys run straight weight oils (usually Valvoline) in many these offshore boat engines. One in particular in 1985 a close friend of mine had a 30' Welcraft with a pair of 330's that we modified with larger valves w/bronze guides, roller rocker arms, bigger cams and headers. I usually maintained the engines for him. They probably made about 450-475hp each. We did NOT have any oil coolers on the engines---again, NO OIL COOLERS!....and at the time and we ran that straight 40wt Valvoline mineral based oil and we must have put close to 600 hours on those engines until he sold the boat in 1993. We usually had at least 3-4 people aboard and constantly cruised the boat at about 3700-4200rpm. We should have been using oil coolers, but we were young and dumb then, they were more of a luxury item at the time, and were extremely expensive. We just always made sure we stayed on top of oil changes and we never had any problems with the engines. That oil had to be running pretty HOT without any coolers-----not a bad testamonial. I think that's why I have always used a straight weight mineral based oil and that I'm not too quick to change to synthetics or multi-weight/viscosity oils and not that they don't work well or maybe even better than a straight weight----but I know by experience what a straight weight oil has done for me and my friend over the years.

These days, because I have oil thermostats and very large oil coolers, I will start using the straight 30wt mineral based oil as long as the air/water temps are cold as well in my 540 cubic inch engines from the time I start water testing the boat (end of April/begining of May) until about mid/end of June or when it really starts getting hot/humid out and the switch to a straight 40wt as "Keith" says he does. Only difference is that I use/prefer Valvoline. I was acutally thinking of doing this starting in the spring prior to this thread/conversation anyway. I think it's a good idea for the area/climate I live in. I prefer not to use a multi wt/viscosity oil----probably because of what I have seen work and I have experienced in the past.

I'm sure there are others here who perhaps have a testamonial about the oil they use when it comes to synthetics or multil-weight/viscosity oils that have worked well for them over the years too. I just know what has worked well for me in my climate.

????
 

Myself, and almost everyone else I know runs Roller lifters with synthetic oil. If you run a solid roller, the only time the wheel could slip is on the base of the cam (when you have valve lash). I've run solid rollers in my SBC with almost 400 hrs & synthetic........Not a single issue. Everything looked really good at the freshen up. In fact, I sold the used lifters to a marine mechanic to use in a street truck.

I would suggest this though.....with any solid roller, run a rev kit (springs set up between the head & the lifter) if there is one avaialble for your set up. This ensure's that the roller will aways be contacting the lobe.

Just my experience / opinion

Reading Kaama's post I forgot to mention that I had no engine oil coolers either, and used to run 5800-6200 RPMs. Anyone I've been with knows I ran them either on, or off all the time.

In fact, the upper halves of the drived would even turn white (even with drive showers).

A pro of synthetic oil most don't realize is that it has a much wider operating temperature range than mineral. We all know about the high end, but synthetic also flows better at lower temperatures than straight mineral oil. As for the roller lifters sliding I think Ratchet has hit the nail on the head, probably happens mainly on the heel of the cam during valve lash or zero lift. If the lifters are slightly sliding what is it going to hurt? The slippery oil is between the cam lobe and the roller which means very little friction, and heat. I would guess if the roller slides on the cam, it is only slipping a very small percentage which shouldn't hurt anything on hydraulic or solid lifters. Like stated earlier GM recommends synthetic oil in their roller cammed LS1 motors, so it must not be that big of an issue. :) I run synthetic oil because it is supposed to be the best as far as handling high bearing loads that may occur if detonation sets in. It may be the difference between a holed piston which is easy or a spun bearing or broken rod. Lets hope that never happens, but the price of synthetic makes me feel there is a little more of a chance if it does. Just my opinion as usual.;)

Seems like I have often wondered about that as well. I wouldn't think it would make a difference in a boat engine either, but Dave Crower even told a local engine builder here not to use synthetic oils with an engine using roller lifters.

Ratchet, I hear what you're saying, but isn't it pretty much a known fact that small block chevy's don't seem to have the problems with solid roller cams that the BBC's do? I've been told that solid roller cams in the SBC don't have near the problems because of design as compared to a BBC. Just a thought.

Wette Vette, how often do you change your synthetic oil in your boat engine?

I change the oil in my motor every spring. Same with the drive. Has anyone heard of a motor failing because of the oil being of the incorrect type or weight? (assuming motor oil is being used) I haven't. As long as the motor is built right it really is like splitting hairs when it comes to the motor oil. I think it comes down to doing what you feel is right.:cool: Another one of those opinion things. Did Crower say what would happen to the cam or lifter if it does slide? Just curious.

Craig,

Apparently it causes premature lifter failure. Supposedly the roller bearings don't wear properly when using the synthetics. You're right sometimes it's like splitting hairs. I would probably use a synthetic, but fact or myth, that lifter issue has me concerned. I also usually like to change my oil more like 3 times or so per year. I seemed to get a little gas in my oil and condesation builds up too. It probably shouldn't do this because I have 212* oil thermostats. Perhaps I may go to a lighter weight oil---like straight 30wt. I have some pretty large oil coolers. I'm running about 160* water temps and about 190-200* oil temps at cruising speeds and about 220-230* temps @4000+rpm.

lately, ive been using kendal straight 40,
a guy i know claimed he was using amsoil
in a hp500efi, and gained 150 rpm top end,
so i called amsoil, told them the application,
they advised 25w40 marine/diesel, so i
order 5 gallons, next day i get my, i believe,
july 2002 PBM, and i read about the above
mentioned lifter sliding.
if the lifters are indeed sliding, due to the
superior lubrication properties of synthetic's
is that a problem ?, flat tappets slide on the
cam.
i would be more worried about the lifter
not "wheeling" up the cam lobe, which, i
would think, would cause high sideloading
on the lifters, due to the more aggressive
cam profile.
needless to say, the amsoil is still in the
garage.
i want to hear from more "guiena pigs"
before i am tempted to put this stuff in,
next oil change.
just a thought,
j.t.

p.s. ran amsoil in the drives this vear,
less chalk build up on the drives,
and, at least around here, it was cheaper
than the merc. hi perf. ''green sh-t ".

Kaama,

It's true, small block checy's don't have as many problems............It's most likely because the pushrods are shorter & straight. Where as in a big block, there is more sideload (for lack of a better term) than a small block.

Truthfully, I'm surprised that crower said not to use synthetic oil. I know I spoke to dave a few years ago, and I never recall that coming up. I think I mentioned synthetic.

Anyways, I do have to say, I'm using crower solid rollers 250/252 @ .050, with .584, 596 after lash (but I've only got little mice under the hatches - lol), but I know other people who also use them in big blocks, from 500 to 1050 HP. It seems that they are easier on the valve train than comp cams, or crane ? Maybe it has to do with the ramp angles, and all that other techi-stuff, but they seem to have that figured out. Should I build any motors, small or big, I'd definitely use them.

One thing that we did not consider, from wette vette's post is that the gm engines are hydraulic rollers (or at least I believe they are). So they always have a preload on them. Maybe this would "keep the roller on the cam" ? Just food for thought.

Wette Vette: Just thinkin through this (bare with me - lol) If the roller did not actually roll, maybe it could become scored, or score the cam..............eventually causing damage........I'm not sure, like I said, just tryin to think through it ;-)

Great posts - I find this not only entertaining, but helpful to !

checy's = chevys ! (ok, when we gonna get a spellcheck :-)

Another interesting fact..............& this is no BS. When we dynoed my friend's big block this past spring, after a few pulls to break her in, we changed from plane jane 30 wt oil to mobil 1 15-50. Then we did absolutly nothing else, but the oil change, and when we made a couple of more pulls, one was 18 horse higher, and one 19.....back to back. (the motor ended up making 932 hp when all was said & done)

I know we always hear about stuff like this, but it was actually more believable when we did it

Dave Crower said not to run synthetics ?!

The person I talked to (can't remember the name, he's and old timer and is there marine specialist) at Crower said synthetics aren't a problem in a solid roller application.

I planned on switching to Royal Purple next year.

Ratchet,
Donnie and I were watching Vince K. dyno one of his prostock motors about 4 years ago and he switched from the break in stuff, which looked like paint thinner (don't remember what it was) and put in Royal Purple (noone around had heard about that stuff then) and got something like a 40 hp gain.
Theres nothing like hearing a BB chevy at 9800rpms !! What a site, I think it was only making 1280 hp , a little low for a good Prostock engine:)

Chuck,

I spoke to Dave a while ago, and like I said, that just didn't sound right.

If I recall I think they said stay away from synthetic during engine brake-in. I know when you use their lifter, you ARE NOT supposed to wash them. There's some break in stuff on the needle bearings in the rollers. or some chit like that !

RJ

well the synthetic oil use to cause a problem in the old days, this is what I was told, the molecule's were perfect, were regular oil they are not, they also did not have the additives in the synthetic's that they do today, So the old type synthetic oil could cause a problem with insufficient spring pressure, but would not today, I read a tech article by the man himself, mr Teague, he used regular oil in one motor and synthetic in the other, tore them down after a race, and he said the synthetic side had a slight, Slight less wear, his test showed redline the best, but he said the key to long engine life is to change the oil every 25 hours are less even with synthetic
Mark

Ratchet,
I hear what you are saying but I have a different angle. Friction between the roller and cam cause the wheel to turn. If the friction is so low with synthetic oil that the wheel slides slightly do you really think there is enough friction to score the cam or roller wheel? Interesting topic.
Craig

There's an engine builder who builds engines for a popular SBI (?) race boat that I know of and he doesn't BS me. And if I remember correctly he told me within a year ago that Dave Crower personaly told him not to use synthetics on roller cams. This engine builder knows Dave Crower very well and has done business with him for several years. They know each other personaly.

If I were using a flat tappet cam/lifters I wouldn't mind using a synthetic oil. It all supposedly has something to do with the rollers not rolling properly/correctly on the lobes thus causing damage to the needle bearings within the rollers.

Who knows, perhaps I'll have to give the synthetics a try----but I still prefer to change my oil more than once per season. Synthetic or mineral base I still believe that frequent oil changes are key and with synthetics it's going to be more expensive for sure. I'm sure they provide better lubricating properties at higher operating temps, but if my oil only gets up to about 230* tops with a mineral based oil then what weight of synthetic should I use? I must admit that one of the benefits from the synthetic that I'm seeing here are the HP gains---that's real impressive!

I'm also enjoying all the pros & cons of the feedback here.

KAAMA,
I called Amsoil when choosing what oil to run and they suggested 10W40 or 25W40. Your engines aren't to far from mine being larger, but less radical. As stated earlier I run the synthetic stuff because of the extra bearing load capabilities. My motor will probably never see 150 HRS, because I just can't leave something alone that long without wanting to try something different. (bigger and badder):D

Power boat mag./teague on tech said something about roller slippage. I will try to find the article and post.

As for motor breakin they (good engine builders ) all say breakin with 40 oil dont use syn.

Royal purple, I love the stuff smells and tastes good. I have seen better milage (been testing for over a year) They claim 1-3% hp gain. Not that great 3% X 6oo=18hp=approx. 1mph. good night

:D :D :D :D
Found it Powerboat July 2002, article to long for me to post if you want just send me a pm and I will fax it to you (if you leave a fax number) GGGooooooooooood NIGHT

I read that article and will summerize. Synthetic showed noticable differences in the amount of wear between the mineral and synthetic oils. (synthetic showed less wear) They also recommend a heavier viscosity when using synthetic. (they advise against using 10W30 synthetic). Last Bob Teague said there are some people saying the roller lifters have a tendancy to slide on the cam with synthetic, but he hasn't seen evidence of that.

I have been using 40w Valvoline Racing oil in my last two boats for the last 3 seasons....no problems....Fred

Synthetics developed a bad name from years ago when there wasn't enough long term data to call it safe to use. This contributed to a lot of myths. Simply there is no difference between synthetics (which btw is not 100% synthetic anyway) and mineral oils when each are are in new condition. As they age there are truly only 2 discernible differences between the two and one is synthetics have a better resistence to heat and two, as a result takes longer to break down. If you're rigid about your oil change schedule i.e. religiously every 30-50 hrs, then spending on synthetics could almost be a waste of money. If you're not always regular, then synthetics could be worth the expense. Otherwise, you'd probably be better off spending the money on an excellent oil filter...

Fred,

I certainly know/understand what you're saying. I've been using straight weight mineral based oils for years for marine engines. They have worked for me and it sounds the same for you as well. But, that doesn't mean there isn't something out there that is better such as the synthetics. It's just that people like you and I who have used mineral based oils know these mineral based oils have worked fine for us over the years and it can be hard to switch when you know a product works well for you. I might give the synthetics a shot. Perhaps I'll run a 10-40wt full synthetic.

Kaama/
Your right on Crower's recommedation of non synthetic. I run a Big Chief head which is very tough on lifter side loading (solid roller) and we were experiencing some service life issues with Crower components. We made some changes but Dave also specifically asked me to change to Kendal GT1 or Valvoline Racing due to the addition of zinc. I did and life has been good. Prior to the change I used to run Amsoil or Mobil1 and I really liked the looks of the main and rod bearings after use. I will say that with the hydraulic rollers I never had any issues with synthetics. If you do some checking you will also find some very noteable engine builders using Kendal or Valvoline in higher hp applications with certain combinations.

Bob, Kendal or Valvoline what???----full synthetics or mineral based oil? I want to make sure I understand which and what oils you're talking about.

Thanks for your input.

I just changed the oil in mine and used 40 wt Rotella. I remember reading somewhere that the Rotella scored higher in something like 13 catagories when compared to premim motor oil. If it can take the stresses of a diesel, it should be fine in a gas motor.

www.rotella.com
 

Heard the same about rotella.
Thinking about going back to a mineral oil, anyone want to buy 20 gallons of royal P:D :D :D

Point well taken. Like I said, I think the rev kits help keep the wheel pressed on the cam, rolling. My friend built 3 540 blower motors for a 43 scarab. They made 1050 HP. They ran mobil 1 in there and after pokker-running for a couple of seeasons, the motors were tore down with no issues.........Heck, the main & rod bearings looked like new, and they never had any issues with the valvetrain. Just what I've seen.

As for rev kits, I read some people here were using big chiefs. To my knowledge there are no rev kits available for use with these heads (most likely cauuse of all the angles, etc). Has anyone heard of any of these yet ?

As for my engines, I've always broken them in with mineral oil, and then switched to synthetic. Never any issues.

[/B]Like Kaama said, when you've got something that works for you, it's hard to switch [/B]

Great to hear everyonoes thoughts.....it really makes you think.