Old engine had Felpro MLS. Last 4 (new) builds all used Cometic MLS- replaced each time with 2 different thicknesses (.005 difference) . I don't have old block of old Felpro gasket to look at but I am ordering Felpro for this next, hopefully last build. The Cometic hg i have lines up with the head drain back. The new Dart block drain back hole is slightly off. I wish I had old block to check how it lined up.

Oil pressure is slightly higher now, but around the same at idle and cruise. Old engine at 65psi. The last 80 of i remember correctly, do many builds lol. Same lifters and rockers. Different push rods.

The pictures make the hone look much more coarser than it appears in person. I called the shop that just did the hone and asked what stones they used (very nice guys).
1st C3-A55 220 grit
2nd C30-J65 280 grit 2-3 strokes
Finish 320 brush 2 strokes

It sounds like the hone is what I wanted. Definitely rougher than last 4. We both thought it looked like a 400 finish. Just very cautious with everything that has happened.

Bill whats your opinion on the Total Seal AP stainless top ring? Hard on the cylinder? Hard to seal? Need rougher finish to work?

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Had someone else look over the heads this weekend. Couldn't believe the amount of oil everywhere. Honestly, when I pulled the engine and disassembled it back in August, I put everything away and haven't really looked at it. It appears that all 8 exhaust ports have a stream of oil coming from guide/valve. You can see the trail on all 8. Valve seals were what was on there for 3 of the builds and have been replaced. Last builder changed the intake seal to a different type. Yesterday new eyes said they appear too tight and weren't sitting on the valve right. Than was looking closely at the oil trail in exhaust port. Checked to see if valve guides were loose in head, didn't appear to be. Guides are the same, never changed.

I agree with what was stated earlier that the oil seems to be coming from above.

Don't know how but thinking it is something with the turbos. No smoke on dyno running n/a (put camera down spark plug holes. To of pistons looked perfect). Put in car and starts smoking. 1st time took 125 miles to show up. Later builds faster and faster.

Any ideas on how the turbos could be causing this issue? Turbos don't appear to be leaking. Bone dry.

Exhaust ports from one head. Other looks similar.

So oil burning issues started when switching to Dart block? (not sure if I'm following the progression properly)
I'd try to "gasket match" the drain-back holes if mis-aligned.
You had stated issue happened once at 1800 RPM in the driveway. Doesn't sound like oil press increased much at that RPM.

Got a pic of head gasket on the Dart block showing mis-alignment of oil drain-back holes?
Do you still have the old Cometic MLS head gasket to check hole alignment with?

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...e25db6b2c4.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...95f02bbb69.jpg
Sorry, it's hard to follow along, there is so much going on.

Happened in first 3 builds with old block.

Thought we found issue after 3rd build where the 2 turbo drains where draining into the crank weights. Changed oil pan and drain location and bought new dart block, crank and rods.

Rear drain is the centered one

And how large are your turbo oil drains ? Lengthy thread. Sorry if mentioned.

No worries. I'm having trouble following lol.

-10 drains

Well, if you are 100% sure they drain over oil level in pan, i’d clkean oil out of ports, get some oil dye and run it for a few miles anyway and go looking.

Forgive me but I'm not sure what the dye will do? Oil is everywhere. I'm sure I'm missing something.

Engine is completely apart now. Has to be reassembled. Am ready for it but would like to find something. This is build #5. Not sure if there is a #6. Lol

-10 female bungs welded in each side on the kickout. Rear sump holds 7 qts (I measured). Pan has a pretty large front sump to clear the Ford front mounted oil pump. Than the filter holds almost a qt. Oil level by where drains return is definitely below. Engine runs 7qts of oil. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...80e1b6f3aa.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...5b6f3d461c.jpg
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I have never used them so I cant say.

The die might have shown a trail through an intake gasket or somewhere else where oil should not have been.

I have nothing of value to add, but I’m really enjoying this thread so thanks for bringing us along

Might be worth contacting Trickflow and see if they have any experience with this situation and/or any suggestions. Maybe oil drainback holes could be enlarged??

Only way I can think of to verify if valve covers are flooding would be to drill a witness hole into a sacrificial set of valve covers above the level of the drainback holes. If you want to get fancy, install a clear tube between holes drilled at top and bottom of valve cover so oil level inside valve cover could be monitored (sightgauge). Unfortunately, you would have to put it all back together to try.

Just had another hair brained idea. What if breather filters on valve covers got plugged up somehow (paper element getting oil soaked)? With no pcv sys installed, press would build up in crankcase/valve covers helping push oil past valve guide seals. Some serious spitballing now. :D

Check piston clearance in cylinder bore

Oil drain back holes are larger in head than new block. I don't have old block anymore to check but no issues on old block for years.

I thought about excessive pressure under covers. I have 2 decent sized K&N breathers. I'll post pictures later. Again same breathers from working engine.

I do appreciate everyone's input.

Clearance was 0035-004 when I measured last week. JE piston. Would have to check what alloy. Can't remember off hand.

My thoughts on the breather filters are that I believe they are designed to filter relatively clean dry air under hood into the crankcase. Without a pcv sys they would be flowing backwards.

I had similar filters on my street bike that were washable and after they dried, you would add some filter oil to them. I remember they don't like to get wet (with water). I'd have to put plastic bags over them at the car wash.

This makes me wonder if oil mist mixed with water vapor (condensation) might plug them up. Once the condensation dried, they would flow again. It also might take time to plug up, so no issues for a while, then bam, they plug up again. Once again, another thing to check after its back together.

Were these filters installed on the orig "no issues" build?
If so,, disregard this post.

Same breathers as before(sorry I know I keep saying that😇. That's what makes this so strange. Breathers in picture.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...38eac48414.jpg

Checked valve seals again. Seals appear to seal very well on the valves. Don't think oil is getting past them, at least to the extent in the cylinders.

By looking at the oil in the the exhaust ports, would it be possible "IF" the "excessive" oil was coming from the rings or intake ports, could it swirl or get pulled around the exhaust port hump and look wet like in the picture? Kind of like rain getting pulled to the edge of a wing of an air plane.

Thoughts?

Also look how much oil is in the combustion chamber? All 8 similar. Don't think oil is coming from exhaust port. Again this build had dyno time, 30 street miles (no boost) and 30-45 minutes of total idle time.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...89910ad429.jpg
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A couple of questions. Is this a long stroke or long connecting rod engine where the wrist pin is up in the oil ring? Who is doing the short block assembly? Are the rings being lubricated on assy? I know that I will catch some heat for this, but most rings these days should be installed completely dry for proper ring seating.

This is a good friend of mine and he is Mr. SBF. Give him a call and I am sure that he can get to the bottom of it. His name is Ray, tell him that Joe sent you
https://www.rrmotorsports.net/

It is a longer stroke for a sbf, but very common. The wrist pin does go into the oil ring.

Very reputable builder built first 2 short blocks, than the last 2 long blocks a he wanted to dyno engine before it left his shop. I'm glad I didn't build it because everyone would have been pointing fingers at me. This next time I am building it. I can't do any worse?? Lol

I believe builder uses very light tranny fluid on rings because it burns right off. I have heard of some putting together dry.

Joe i sent you a pm. Thanks
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Had this happen on my 548 with K&N breathers. Felt like rings didn't seal and had excessive blow by and breathers were dripping with oil. Those filters directly on covers get oil mist soaked in them and quit being able to flow air. I changed to different and taller style and no issues after that.

I thought you also lost ring seal though from piston touching the cylinder head from not enough piston to head clearance at one point too at .027, was that the same motor? at same time, just curious.

Breathers are not right on valve cover. It was pushed down in picture. Off the top of my head the breather tubes welded on the valve covers are about 4" high(similair to the driver side). Plus a trick i do is cut a piece of a/c filter foam and roll up and put in tube. It has very large cells. Will catch any oil before it hits the breather element. It will drip back down. Did that on the working engine for 10 years.

I will look into breathers and put carb filters on each cover if needed. 😄

I spoke to Ray today. Very nice guy.

Ray very quickly said oil was getting past the rings, not coming from the heads, which confirmed my suspicion.

Hopefully going to start building engine this weekend. If anyone has any other thoughts, I would love to hear them.

Thanks Joe and all helping out!!!!

No that was first attempt and had the gapless stainless rings and 0.27" gasket haha. Rebuilt with conventional AP rings and .039" head gasket and still had a WTF moment when running and questioned ring seal again. Changed breathers to tall stainless style, and no more issues all summer until slowly degrading oxygen sensor and left active auto-tune detonated a piston on last run of the year.

I own 3 Mustangs and am intrigued by this thread. I'd love to know more about this Mustang when you get it straightened out!

Good quick read for everyone:

https://www.precisionturbo.net/tech/...mendations.pdf

The biggest reasons turbos will smoke is poor drainage. The oil can not get out and the pressurized oil has no where to go except out the shaft. At that point it will either go in the compressor side (into intake) or in the exhaust system (not going directly into the engine).

Here is a better picture of my breather. 2" tube
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...1d7da0bac1.jpg

I didn't think there were many Ford fans on this site 🤔.

It's not a matter of when, it's IF I get this straightened out. Lol

If there is any interest, i could start a build thread.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...a1c3839502.jpg

Sign me on as a Blue Oval fan. Be cool to have boat with a 460 but they just aren’t out there.

interested x1 :popcorn:

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Lots of car enthusiasts here and I'm sure there are some other Ford fans. I own an '82 GT T-top that has been hot rodded but body is stock. It is scary fast running light but is old school and no match for the wilder stuff. Also a '95 GT (last year of the push-rod 5.0) and an '07 convertible. All are very nice and stored in the winter. I have owned in the past a '65 coupe, '66 fastback, '67 convertible and '68 coupe.
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It's good to see some Ford fans here. I don't have any good pictures of my car. Most have a inch of dust on it. Been sitting for almost 3 years now with all the issues on the last build. I bought this 90
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brand new back in 90. Been thru quite a few upgrades over the years. This is the only picture I have on my phone from a few months ago.

Nice! The Fox Mustangs are so light. Mine weighs 2,800 pounds. I've owned my '82 since 1984. Sorry about the sidetrack. Engine gurus come back please!

Mine is a pig!!! 3400lbs with me, with single turbo. New block heavier than last. She's a heavy girl. AOD w/sfi bell, back braced Strange 9" rear, 8 pt cage, full interior, big brakes all around.

Bill i just watched the link to the Total Seal/ Rottler cylinder finish video. Very interesting. I wish I would have seen it before I just had the block honed. I'm worried the first stone they used wasn't coarse enough. In the video it was mentioned numerous times to start with a 180 stone to get the proper RVK, especially when using e85.

Can I ask what first stone you typically use? Have you done any E85 street cars?

Mine was just done with a 220. I'm wondering if the valleys are going to be deep enough??

Looking good guys. My '87 T-Top car that I hopefully get the engine done this winter. It's been pulled and sitting on the shelf for 5yrs and sitting on the engine stand the last 4 months.The intake has been removed finally. lol

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...1351bf1678.jpg

I typically start with either 70 or 140, hone to .003 or so. Then 220 to .0005 then 280 to size and then two strokes with the brushes.

BUT ..... there have been plenty of times when I have done a freshen up and taken as much as .001 out with the 280's.

I think you are reading too much into the cylinder wall finish. I just dont think it is as critical as you are making it out to be. For many years we would bore the block out to about .002 or so from finish bore then use the 220's and only a few strokes with the 280's. Still never had an issue. I personally do not think that ring seal is your problem.

Thanks for the info