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Originally Posted by articfriends
(Post 4898235)
crazy how some want lots of jet and some dont to achieve afr target. Do you remember size of your PVCR feeds? and bigger question, regular bowl vents, j hooks or this newer bridged holley vent thing? I just installed one of these on a 850 carb on dyno and afrs went down a full point, had to pull all kinds of jet on a 600 hp 509. https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/W2gAA...X/s-l1600.webp
I'm using J-tubes to make there, err, USCG compliant. Reading up on these carbs in particular, they do seem to want a lot of jet. Going to methodically work through the configuration... starting at the IFRs to fix the super-rich transition circuit and go from there. May even consider a PV in the secondary. Will have to test at each point. |
Originally Posted by zz28zz
(Post 4898278)
I'm no expert in regards to jetting but they seem pretty high to me.
With all you've been thru already I hate to bring this up, but have you verified you're maintaining fuel press at high RPM? |
Originally Posted by compedgemarine
(Post 4898294)
in a way this goes to my point of the hatch being off. on a dyno the air is straight down to the carb, in the boat with the hatch off the air is a big whirlwind of crap. in the case of the modified boat the carbs had regular straight vents and the air thru the arrestor was so fast that it would draw fuel out of the bowls. seems those vents would negate a lot of the straight down air or cross air or what ever the carb is seeing at the time.
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Originally Posted by TomZ
(Post 4898301)
PVCRs are .070.
I'm using J-tubes to make there, err, USCG compliant. Reading up on these carbs in particular, they do seem to want a lot of jet. Going to methodically work through the configuration... starting at the IFRs to fix the super-rich transition circuit and go from there. May even consider a PV in the secondary. Will have to test at each point. Just wrapped up a dyno job for a member off here larose481, a pair of rebuilt HP500 mercs. he switched to promaxx 290 ovals, edelbrock performer rpm intakes, stock carbs off the HP 500s. We were at our target afr on tailpipe and had reasonable enough cylinder balance with 79/80 jetting in front and a 88/91 jetting on rear. After putting the vent on (j hooks were removed before dynoing), our afrs dropped a point or so. Had to go to 74/75 front and 84/90 rear to get back on target and get power back at same air denisty |
How/Where are you measuring your AFR numbers. Only on one side of each engine? Or both sides of each engine. Have you done steady state cruise at a given rpm for several minutes, killed the ignition and checked the plugs. ( I do realize for many set ups this is no t always possible.)This will give you an idea of how equal the distribution is in each cylinder. Also if your checking port engine in one manifold, and starboard in the opposite manifold could explain your differences in readings between the two engines.
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Okay, looks like most everyone selling those tubes now.
Referred to as Holley Bowl Vent Tube Crossover Off Road Truck |
Originally Posted by Smitty275
(Post 4898499)
How/Where are you measuring your AFR numbers. Only on one side of each engine? Or both sides of each engine. Have you done steady state cruise at a given rpm for several minutes, killed the ignition and checked the plugs. ( I do realize for many set ups this is no t always possible.)This will give you an idea of how equal the distribution is in each cylinder. Also if your checking port engine in one manifold, and starboard in the opposite manifold could explain your differences in readings between the two engines.
I have not done any real steady state runs for given rpm though have let it settle before going up to the next rpm point. We're testing in a small area and tend to run out of room. On the days we've gone out, the weather wasn't cooperating so this has been the compromise. But, even if I was out in the Chesapeake, anything over 3500 under load is getting to the point where meltdown could happen. It's just too lean above 3000 rpm. So I need to understand why everything begins to go so lean when increasing RPM. I agree about checking plugs - need a fresh set to test with as these are a bit on the done side. When I first talked about using these carburetors, there were some comments about it being pig rich if I increased the jetting over stock (stock with BGs emulsion was 86 PMJ/93 SMJ, .030 emulsion in 1-3-5, and .070 IAB, .028 MAB). It was lean from the get-go and needed 88s and 96s to run but still produced a lean pop at peak torque. And now, here we are. |
Originally Posted by articfriends
(Post 4898418)
From my experience, IF a typical holley carb with regular vents needs to have say a 82 main jet to reach target afr, with J hooks that same carb may need a 88 or so from negative pressure in bowl screwing up the jetting and IF has the crossover tube like I just pictured, will be the opposite, that 82 would go down to about a 76.
Just wrapped up a dyno job for a member off here larose481, a pair of rebuilt HP500 mercs. he switched to promaxx 290 ovals, edelbrock performer rpm intakes, stock carbs off the HP 500s. We were at our target afr on tailpipe and had reasonable enough cylinder balance with 79/80 jetting in front and a 88/91 jetting on rear. After putting the vent on (j hooks were removed before dynoing), our afrs dropped a point or so. Had to go to 74/75 front and 84/90 rear to get back on target and get power back at same air denisty I have the original vent tubes to try to se what we get. I can definitely understand the effects the moving air would have on the J-tubes (and its effect on the float bowls). My tubes have breaks mid-way that should negate the effect but by how much is an unknown. In your testing over the years, have you come across a fairly mild build, 500 cube, 600-ish HP setup needing so much jet? 91s with a 070 power valve on the primary side (and still be lean into the secondaries) seems seriously excessive, don't you think? |
Originally Posted by TomZ
(Post 4898579)
So J-tubes would increase the jet requirement or reduce? At first the explanation was that it would dictate a need for more jetting, but then it looks like you had to take jet out of larose481's once the J-tubes went back on.
I have the original vent tubes to try to se what we get. I can definitely understand the effects the moving air would have on the J-tubes (and its effect on the float bowls). My tubes have breaks mid-way that should negate the effect but by how much is an unknown. In your testing over the years, have you come across a fairly mild build, 500 cube, 600-ish HP setup needing so much jet? 91s with a 070 power valve on the primary side (and still be lean into the secondaries) seems seriously excessive, don't you think? |
Originally Posted by TomZ
(Post 4898579)
So J-tubes would increase the jet requirement or reduce? At first the explanation was that it would dictate a need for more jetting, but then it looks like you had to take jet out of larose481's once the J-tubes went back on.
I have the original vent tubes to try to se what we get. I can definitely understand the effects the moving air would have on the J-tubes (and its effect on the float bowls). My tubes have breaks mid-way that should negate the effect but by how much is an unknown. In your testing over the years, have you come across a fairly mild build, 500 cube, 600-ish HP setup needing so much jet? 91s with a 070 power valve on the primary side (and still be lean into the secondaries) seems seriously excessive, don't you think? https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...carb-lean.html |
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