Roller Rockers
 

I still have the stock rocker arms on my Merc 454 Mag MPI. I've made only minor modifications to the engine (see below). I'm wondering if I should swap to roller rockers, but I've heard the benefits are minimal. I'm looking for input.

1. Are there any advantages other than less friction and less side-load?

2. Are there any disadvantages? Do they have to be re-built/replaced more often the stock rockers? (which last 2000 hrs in come cases).

3. Crane Gold or Comp Pro Magnum?

4. I've heard Crane's are noisier than stock. Anyone else experience this?

5. I'm a shadetree mechanic at best (did the mods below myself). Can I do this swap myself CORRECTLY? How difficult is the adjustment procedure?

Thanks

I've always had good luck with Harland Sharp. The rollers free up some friction and are an exact ratio whereas stamped steel are not cast exact in some cases. They say you can see up to 20hp but don't count on it. You probably won't notice any change but they are easier on your valvetrain. As far as lifespan, i've put around 50,000 miles on my Harland Sharps between many motors in my race/street car and never had one fail yet. I am also running a solid roller cam with very high spring pressures. Harland Sharp guarantees them forever also.

Ive got a set of good crane gold race I'llsell you cheap,you should get quicker r's with rollers.........

I am good friends with the people from Harland Sharp, and I will tell you first hand they are a class act opperation their rockers are simply the best for the money and period for that point. they will stand behind thier product completely. they test theirs and others like crane and beat the **** outa both I can't tell you how many broker crane rockers I've seen.not bashing crane but when it comes to my motors I only go orange.:Dhttp://www.harlandsharp.com/

Based on my personal experience with Crane stuff I wouldn't put them in my motor even if they paid me to.:( :(

Are the Harland roller rockers as "worry-free" as the non-adjustable stock rockers? Can I install them and forget them since my motor is relatively stock? Or will they have to be adjusted or re-built periodically?

I noticed the Harlands are for "race" engines. Will they last a long time on a non-race engine or are they really designed to be run hard and re-built/replaced periodically?

Thanks,

I'm with Bigwavz on this one!! :mad: too many broken poly-loks....i stopped keeping track after the 5th!!!

RIC232:the harland rockers need to be adjusted periodically if your running a solid lifter cam. but if this is the case you'll have to adjust your stock rockers periodically to.If you are using a hudraulic lifter cam setup you will only need to set them up once like your stock rockers. In any case I reconend periodically checking your rocker adjustment. A roller rocker like these will last as long as a standard rocker or longer. With less friction and resistance you will gain hp and economy on even a stock motor due to friction reduction. long story short you can't go wrong. I've seen big blocks with Harland rockers gernade I mean mashed push rod tubes broken cams and an undamaged rocker that is still in spec. they are a great way to eliminate a weak link and gain power.

if your going to step up to roller rockers what do you all think of going up one size in ratio? like factory 1.7 to Harland 1.8 ? Charlie PS I run Scorpion Race serise in the 409

I switched from roller rockers back to stock (long story) on my 454s. Noticed a much quieter valve train after switching to the stamped rockers. Why would this be? Not sure of the manufacturer of the roller rockers... no name or part number and they came on the engines when I bought the boat. Planing to go back to the roller rockers over winter. Any reason why I should reconsider?

BT :cool:

How are those Scorpian brand aluminum roller rocker arms? I think they're blue in color. Anyone had any experience with them?

I dont have a lot of seat time on mine but I do have them on a solid lifter cam with 30 thou. gap and have not broke or damaged one yet? PS mine are silver but I have seen them orange, blue, red. all with the little scorpian on them. Charlie

We run Comp roller tipped rockers on our Corvette. So far they seem pretty good and we haven't had to adjust them. Not much of a HP gain, but it takes some of the side load off the valves.

I know it is expensive, but has anyone tried running Jesel rockers? I have used them in Drag race motors ( cars) before without any failures..

I run Jesels on my 496 solid roller motor. They are real sweet!!! The valve lash hasn't need adjustment as of yet. They cost me around $900.00!! I saw some Jesel Sportsman series at the PRI show and they were listed at around $650.00. Still salty, but friendlier.;)

Most of the people I know use Crower roller rockers. I've used then in small blocks and ran them for 400 or so hours, with only a little wear on a couple of the wheels. I also know of some 1000 plus HP blower engines that use them (the stainless steel crowers).

I like them for SB engines compared to the scorpion, or harland sharp becuase they have a larger bearing set up where they pivot.

Anyways, just an opinion............

Ratchet

what advantage does the Crower "stainless steel" roller rocker arms have over other steel roller rocker arms. I know it doesn't rust, but is that the only advantage?

Kaama

Im not quite sure, I'd have to beleive they're stronger than aluminum rockers...............I just know that I've seen them used on some very healthy motors & they have always held up well. I only mentioned that because I know for SBC's they make aluminum & steel rockeers, & I wasn't sure if they did for big blocks, so I wanted to be clear about which ones I've seen last.

Like I said, I've just seen these used over & over (I also use their products), and have seen them stand up to a lot of punishment.

Over the years, I`ve used many different brands of rockers, some on mild engines and some on more serious hardware. I like Harland Sharp best, followed closely by Comp Cams. I`ve had only one failure and it happened to be with Crane. It was one of the cheaper sets from Crane. I have heard that their GOLD series is good, but for about the same $$$ just go with Harland and sleep easier!

I ran Scorpions on a solid flat tappet SB and got less than an hjour of use before the pushrods actually started wearing a hole throught he back of the rockers sending shavings through a new motor. I had to claen the block and replace all bearings. I WILL NEVER USE CHEAP **** AGAIN!

IMO ,
Jesel is the only way to go ! Yes they are pricey but you get what you pay for.
No stud girdles to deal with and the lash does not change(unless you have a lifter going away!)
Harland Sharp would be my next choice then Crower.

I'm using Comp Cams Steel Magnum Roller Rockers, no problems

I happen to use Crane Gold, Im not a strong supporter but havent had any problems, I have with imitations. Ive seen a few Cranes blow up in friends engines but they were running very high spring pressures. I figure there are a huge amount of these Crane Gold Rockers running in Merc engines and within reason, they must not be too bad. I have heard that Harlan Sharp are good. I wonder why Merc never used them, probably quantity discounts from Crane or something. What does Merc use in their big HP engines?

The reasons for push rod failure in small blocks is 1.push rod bind in the head(cut with Louis Tool) 2 no oil.
I've been to their factory in Fort Lauderdale.
Not taking up for Scorpion but don't want to see them bashed unjustly.

Doug, is there anymore you can tell us about the Scorpian brand roller rockers for a marine application? Anyone out there with big power that you know using the Scorpian roller rocker arms with good success? While you were visiting the Scorpian plant did they give you any reasons as to why their roller rockers might be better than Crane's or Crower's or Harland Sharp's or any other brand? Just curious. Thanks :)

Mark/KAAMA

Has anyone had any expereience, or used the "newer" Jesel sportsman series rockers ? I think they go for about 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of what the originals were ?

Just curious

RAGTOP409 has a good question on the floor?!
I have the same question
What is the pros and cons to going to the 1.8 rocker verses the 1.7? If there is not a problem then who would want the stock 1.7's on a stock motor?
Are we getting into too much duration and lift for wet exhaust on a stock motor?

I do have a set of 1.8 ratio Crane Gold roller rockers for sale with only 50 hours on them ($195). They will give you about .035" more lift and maybe something like 25% of one degree of duration. If you are running a stock cammed engine you will usually benefit by installing 1.8 ratio rocker arms on the intake side. Benefit is usually about 15hp. My engines don't really need them cuz I believe my cam is a hair too large anyway. I was considering buying/trying the Scorpian brand rockers in 1.7:1 ratio---just haven't heard much about them.

Opie272 / ragtop409:with a big block the 1.8 rocker puts the push rod cup closer on the fulcrum to the stud this can cause the push rod tube to rub on the head in some motors. That is the only drawback, with a little mild machining your ready to go. I run 1.8's and never had a problem.

26scarab: jesel does make a good product, but on a bbc stud girdles aren't madatory for harland or crower, although recomended on higher hp applications. I believe jesel rockers also offer a stud girdle.

kaama: steel rockers are allitle more expensive than alloy and would be stronger if cast like an alluminum rocker but what alluminum as a metal lacks in strength the make up in design. Harlan drockers have been tested against stainless in varieties of break tests and actually both rockers broke at almost exactly the same pressure.

Justonce,
Maybe I should have elaborated. I meant the Jesel shaft mounted rockers. There are no studs or polylocks to deal with. T & D also makes this style.

KAAMA
Why not run the 1.8 on the intakes and not the exhaust?

OH, and if you are gonna use the 1.8 rockers, make sure you check valve to piston clearance very closely.

Opie272, You can run the 1.8's on the exhausts if you want, but if I remember correctly it's on the intake side that you get the benefit. JimV is the one who told me this and I think he did some dyno testing with some different rocker arm ratios. JimV's number is 616-735-0800.

Kaama, I've run Scorpions for years with no problems. But, they have all been hydraulic roller cammed BBCs with an RPM limit of about 5700.

to change the ratio on your rockers is ok,but remember......its extra pressure on your studs and guides,your lift gain is going to be a .030 gain which is going to change your spring pressures...you may bind your springs.......

Okay. Back to one of my original questions:

I'm a shadetree mechanic at best (did the mods below myself). Can I do this swap myself CORRECTLY? How difficult is the adjustment procedure?

I actually trust myself more because I will take 8 hours if necessary to do the job right.

Assuming you can get the valve covers off without removing the exhaust manifolds, it is quite simple. I though think this change in and of itself will have no noticable positive affect. Maybe a little gain if you change the ratio, but don't know if you were thinking that. Really nothing wrong with the stamped rockers in a stock application.

BT :cool:

YOU DON'T JUST THROW ON ROCKER RATIOS AT RANDOM IN ALOT OF CASES IT WILL HURT !!!!!! IT DEPENDS ON CAM AND RPM RANGE YOU WANT TO RUN MOST BB CAMS A GROUND AND FIGURURED FOR A 1.7 SOME BLOWER MOTERS WITH A BAD EXHAUST PROFILE CAM WILL BENIFIT FROM 1.8'S OR BAD MANAFOLDS WOULD ALO BENIFIT
N/A MOTORS WITH POOR INTAKE WILL BENIFIT FROM 1.8'S

BUT THIS IS REALLY ONLY A BAND AID

CROWER AND COMP ROCKERS HOLD UP VERY WELL IN STEEL THEY ARE MUCH STRONGER AND HAVE LARGER BEARINGS
THE GOLD CRANES ?? WELL CHECK THEM OUT THEYRE KNOWN TO LOOSEN AND FAIL ON OCCASSION

SCORPION IS A PRIVATE LABEL HARLAND SHARP
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Bobby, That's pretty interesting. I have heard that the Harland Sharps are a good rocker arm and it sounds like the Scorpian brand rockers are probably just as good by what you've stated. Cool. I think I'm going to replace those 1.8's with some Scorpian 1.7's :)

I had Jesel's in my blown 510 that I had in my cat. They worked great without a problem. We did have two Crane hydraulic lifters fail though:rolleyes: