Okay thanks Bobby, I can't remember what cam manufacturer refered to a 7* retainers/keepers as a "Super 7" he made it sound special...maybe I wasn't hearing him correctly or something.

I was also told to take some sand paper or whatever and smooth the inner damper spring so that it doesn;t gouge the underside of the retainer as much.

Thanks for your input too Rod!

Mark/KAAMA

I don't understand how the 10* would have more holding power over the 7*. With the 7*, there is less angle, which in turn has more wedge effect over the 10*. Hence, more holding power. With more of a wedge effect, this would also eliminate any floating/slop, if you would, between the retainer and keepers.

Jerry, your thought process is correct, just from the wrong plane. The angle is vertical not horizontal.

Rod

Mark, I have never heard of the "Super 7" either.

Hey Jerry,

I love that little dude doin' the 2-step in your avitar----funnier than heck! Thanks for your input on the thread. It is thought provoking. It makes for a more interesting topic when things get stirred up a bit more. I like the passion of a point counter point/arguement senario. Of course, I don't like it when things get out of hand. We can argue a point with passion and still be gentlemen about it. :)

BTW, how'd your boat run this past year?

Maybe the Crane SD 7 is what he considers the Super 7????

http://www.cranecams.com/master/vsretain.htm

Boat has been turn key all yr. I removed the blower and returned to all stock in order to sell for bigger.
Jerry

Seems the 10s would exert more upward force on the top of the valve stem, the the 7s would point the forces more toward the cl of the vavle, Therefore 10s would be trying to rip the valve tip off more and 7s would be trying to crush the stem/expand retainer more. Just a thought.

BT

Mark/
I run the Super 7's on the Big Chiefs and they are made by Del West. Del West basically makes all titanium stuff and it you won't find many bargins with their equipment, but it is good. I think the locks are designed specifically for their retainers as well. I purchase my parts from CV Products in NC. Their number is 800-448-1223. Good luck.

7's "hold better" from the standpoint of grabbing the valvestem tightly. High spring pressures combined with the high vibration can in some instances let the retainer sqwoosh higher and higher on the locks as the retainer material swells from the pressure (the same way you can expand a tailpipe by hammering a cone into it).

10's will withstand higher spring pressures without trying to swell the hole out in the retainer. This, however, is a trade-off since they don't grab the valvestem as tight.

Super 7's are 7 degree retainers with a "ledge" in them that acts as a stop to keep the retainer from creeping higher on the locks - they are the best of both worlds. They are the most expensive though.

I run titanium 10 degree retainers. Get em wholesale for $130. Same price as 7's. Super 7's are over $200.

I'm not sure exactly how to ask this next question. What effects the assembly of the retainer/locks? In other words, is it the retainer that comes manufactured in different angles or is it the locks (also known as a "keeper") that come in different angles???

I may have more questions depending on the answers I get, but I don't want to ask too many at a time in one post. I have always known about the 7* and 10* degree locks and retainers, but not the "Super 7's". I was always told that the 10* were the way to go for hi-perf, but I really never knew exactly why, and what the advantages and dis-advantages were. I currently am running the 10* titanium retainers with the machined hardend locks. I am just trying to educate myself here a little better on this subject and I appreciate the input guys. Thanks

Mark/KAAMA

The retainers and locks both have to match. They are both manufactured to either 7* or 10*. You can not use a 7* lock with a 10* retainer.