XR Pinion Gear Wear Problem??
12-22-2002, 11:57 AM
#11
rbtnt, your senario with the XR drives pretty much lines up with mine almost exactly only my drives have about 50hrs on them, my boat weighs 7500-8000lbs dry, my N/A engines make 680hp @5500rpm, I have changed the drive lube twice since new (every 25 hours). For each drive I have a Simrek "halo" drive shower and a transom mounted cooling dump that sprays water on the top cap of the drive while on plane, no white overheated appearances on the drive. I have no choice but to come out of the hole easy by "feathering" the throttles, I usually cruise at about 3300-3500rpm and I might lean on the throttles at WOT maybe once or twice during the day as well unless provoked 
When I had the gear lube changed (Merc Hi-Perf green), I was present as the mechanic drained the lube into the pan. As I was standing there the mechanic was verblizing his findings as he was draining the lube. He didn't see any swirl rings in the pan that indicated any excessive wear or metal shavings, he said the lube looked like it was brand new (no dark colors) even though I had 25 hours on it. He stuck in finger in the lube and smelled it as it was draining and stated that it did NOT have a burnt odor to it and that it smelled "normal" for used lube. He checked the magnetic drive drain plug while showing me he said there were no "Christmas trees" on the plug indicating metal shavings either.
Within about the next 6 weeks or so I will be removing the drives from my boat as well and have Doctor Dave install the new updated design seal/retainers installed and install the thicker Merc billet finned top caps. We will for sure be inspecting these pinion gears.
BTW, my drives were made in 2000 and have 1.5 gears and I have run anywhere from 28", 30" and 32" pitch props with most hours run with the 28's.
I also have talked to Chris/Sterndrivespecialist and he was VERY informative and willing to help and just answer questions
This is a very good/informative thread...thanks!
Mark/KAAMA
When I had the gear lube changed (Merc Hi-Perf green), I was present as the mechanic drained the lube into the pan. As I was standing there the mechanic was verblizing his findings as he was draining the lube. He didn't see any swirl rings in the pan that indicated any excessive wear or metal shavings, he said the lube looked like it was brand new (no dark colors) even though I had 25 hours on it. He stuck in finger in the lube and smelled it as it was draining and stated that it did NOT have a burnt odor to it and that it smelled "normal" for used lube. He checked the magnetic drive drain plug while showing me he said there were no "Christmas trees" on the plug indicating metal shavings either.Within about the next 6 weeks or so I will be removing the drives from my boat as well and have Doctor Dave install the new updated design seal/retainers installed and install the thicker Merc billet finned top caps. We will for sure be inspecting these pinion gears.
BTW, my drives were made in 2000 and have 1.5 gears and I have run anywhere from 28", 30" and 32" pitch props with most hours run with the 28's.
I also have talked to Chris/Sterndrivespecialist and he was VERY informative and willing to help and just answer questions
This is a very good/informative thread...thanks!
Mark/KAAMA
Last edited by KAAMA; 12-22-2002 at 12:00 PM.
12-22-2002, 01:09 PM
#12
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MARK ,JUST FOR MY 2 CENTS WORTH !! I RUN RED LINE SHOCK PROOF GEAR LUBE IN MY DRIVES FOR CUSTOMERS AND MY PERSONAL USE . LOOK ON THEIR HOME PAGE AND READ ABOUT IT .
SHOCK PROOF MEANS IT LEAVES A FILM OF LUBE ON THE GEAR MORE PRONOUNCED THAN OTHER MAN. LUBES SO THE GEARS HAVE A CUSHION BETWEEN THEM AND IT REALLY HELPS ,THEY SHIHT GREAT ARE SHOW VERY LITTLE SIGNS OF WEAR AFTER 400 HRS.
ALSO FOR YEARS I'VE MADE TOP CAPS THAT ARE BILLET AND USE STUDS INSTEAD OF BOLTS FOR BETTER CRUSH AND THE TOP CAP
HAS PASSAGES DRILLED THROUGH IT AND WATER RUNS THROUGH LIKE A SMALL RADIATOR IT REALLY WORKS ,,,,SINCE EACH IS MADE OUT OF THE BEST MATERIAL ONE AT A TIME THEY REALLY WORK AND ARE BETTER IN TOLERANCE THAN ANY I'VE FOUND !!!
LET ME KNOW IF YOUNEED ANY ,SEE YA
BOBBY
SHOCK PROOF MEANS IT LEAVES A FILM OF LUBE ON THE GEAR MORE PRONOUNCED THAN OTHER MAN. LUBES SO THE GEARS HAVE A CUSHION BETWEEN THEM AND IT REALLY HELPS ,THEY SHIHT GREAT ARE SHOW VERY LITTLE SIGNS OF WEAR AFTER 400 HRS.
ALSO FOR YEARS I'VE MADE TOP CAPS THAT ARE BILLET AND USE STUDS INSTEAD OF BOLTS FOR BETTER CRUSH AND THE TOP CAP
HAS PASSAGES DRILLED THROUGH IT AND WATER RUNS THROUGH LIKE A SMALL RADIATOR IT REALLY WORKS ,,,,SINCE EACH IS MADE OUT OF THE BEST MATERIAL ONE AT A TIME THEY REALLY WORK AND ARE BETTER IN TOLERANCE THAN ANY I'VE FOUND !!!
LET ME KNOW IF YOUNEED ANY ,SEE YA
BOBBY
12-22-2002, 10:59 PM
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re-posted here
Hmmmm, that reminds me of last summer.
As you might have heard, we waited till July for the engine builder to finish our 557CI Blower motors...he found some weak parts here and there water testing it.
When we got the boat back to Chicago I was ready for some rockin since I also upgraded our driveline with the IMCO Boxes, their steering and the new -2" IMCO Extreme SC's in the 1.348 ratio.
I have to admit I ran the boat very hard because I missed out on half the summer.
42' of boat with 800 or so HP puts a big load on those drives.
The day that we lost a drive I ran down to Hammond, IN. for a fuel top off and some more ice for the brews.
On the way back I ran at about 75mph/4500rpm for the 10-12 miles returning to Chicago.
We came up to the locks in the city and I tucked the drives in 1 notch, got a little more into the throttles............BANG! thats when the starboard drive let go.
When we got back to the Marina and lifted the boat out we saw a drive showercap missing on that drive which was there at launch but gone now???.
I pulled the back cap off the drive and saw a few teeth missing off the forward and pinion gears.
Called IMCO mad as hell.....blah, blah, blah and they covered it.
We looked the other drive over that had to limp me home for the 3rd time since the starboard motor had its bad days too....and that drive showed it!
I was able to get the boat on plane with 1 motor before so I did it again, and again, and again on the port drive.
We swaped out the pinion gear for a new one and rotaited the drive to the starboard side so it would have a fresh forward gear tooth surface contact.
I switched to RedLine Heavy in the drives and also upped our boost a pound with -2 teeth on the blower pulleys...got another 7 mph top speed.
I have done at least a few dozen WOT runs for a mile or 2 with these rebuilt drives and had no reoccurring issues since.
Time will tell.
The IMCO's have XR componets inside of their own heavyduty upper case...So Its a repackaged XR with some beefier parts from IMCO here and there.
If all else fails...Rod's Bmax's are next.
Mark
As you might have heard, we waited till July for the engine builder to finish our 557CI Blower motors...he found some weak parts here and there water testing it.
When we got the boat back to Chicago I was ready for some rockin since I also upgraded our driveline with the IMCO Boxes, their steering and the new -2" IMCO Extreme SC's in the 1.348 ratio.
I have to admit I ran the boat very hard because I missed out on half the summer.
42' of boat with 800 or so HP puts a big load on those drives.
The day that we lost a drive I ran down to Hammond, IN. for a fuel top off and some more ice for the brews.
On the way back I ran at about 75mph/4500rpm for the 10-12 miles returning to Chicago.
We came up to the locks in the city and I tucked the drives in 1 notch, got a little more into the throttles............BANG! thats when the starboard drive let go.
When we got back to the Marina and lifted the boat out we saw a drive showercap missing on that drive which was there at launch but gone now???.
I pulled the back cap off the drive and saw a few teeth missing off the forward and pinion gears.
Called IMCO mad as hell.....blah, blah, blah and they covered it.
We looked the other drive over that had to limp me home for the 3rd time since the starboard motor had its bad days too....and that drive showed it!
I was able to get the boat on plane with 1 motor before so I did it again, and again, and again on the port drive.
We swaped out the pinion gear for a new one and rotaited the drive to the starboard side so it would have a fresh forward gear tooth surface contact.
I switched to RedLine Heavy in the drives and also upped our boost a pound with -2 teeth on the blower pulleys...got another 7 mph top speed.
I have done at least a few dozen WOT runs for a mile or 2 with these rebuilt drives and had no reoccurring issues since.
Time will tell.
The IMCO's have XR componets inside of their own heavyduty upper case...So Its a repackaged XR with some beefier parts from IMCO here and there.
If all else fails...Rod's Bmax's are next.
Mark
12-25-2002, 03:17 AM
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Teague swears by the Amsoil 80W-90 Gear Lube. He claims it is the best he has tested when it comes to anit-foaming when mxed with water. Anytime you operate a gearbox with rubber seals in the water, you WILL suck some water in when that box starts to cool down. What happens to the lubricant prior to that water burning off is important. If it foams, there will be air pockets in the lube. Air does not lubricate very well. Water lubricates better than air.
At least that is how I understand it.
At least that is how I understand it.
12-25-2002, 01:43 PM
#18
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HEY JIM THE AMSOIL IS GOOD ,,,BUT THE REDLINE IS IN MY TEST AS WELL AS SOME RACE TEAMS SECOND TO NONE FOR THE DRIVE S
I HOPE YOUR NOT GETTING WATER IN THE DRIVE ,IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH TO WONDER WEATHER WATER WILL LUBE BETTER OR AIR
YOU HAVE A PROBLEM ,,,ANYWAY THE REDLINE WILL COAT THE GEARS AND DOES NOT COME OFF ,AND DOES NOT FOAM LIKE OTHERS ,I'M NOT SELLING IT JUST USE IT IN MY CARS ,TRUCKS AND CUSTOMERS BOATS
HOPE THIS HELPS ,HAVE A GOOD ONE
I HOPE YOUR NOT GETTING WATER IN THE DRIVE ,IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH TO WONDER WEATHER WATER WILL LUBE BETTER OR AIR
YOU HAVE A PROBLEM ,,,ANYWAY THE REDLINE WILL COAT THE GEARS AND DOES NOT COME OFF ,AND DOES NOT FOAM LIKE OTHERS ,I'M NOT SELLING IT JUST USE IT IN MY CARS ,TRUCKS AND CUSTOMERS BOATS
HOPE THIS HELPS ,HAVE A GOOD ONE
12-25-2002, 03:39 PM
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Bobby, turn your cap locks off. That is considered yelling.
First, I do sell Amsoil just in case someone takes me to task for that, but only since my friend was told by Teague to run it in the new Platinum drives he got and nobody else sold it around here.
Second, I am sure Redline is great lube. There are alot of racers using it.
I have not tested either lube under these conditions, but apparantly Teague did or he would not be suggesting Amsoil.
Someone said he normally endorses Redline.
I hope you don't think you can place a hot drive in cold water and NOT expect some water to be sucked in thru the seals. It's not much if the seals are in good condition, and it burns off, but it's inevitable.
Remember, when things get hot, they expand, creating a high pressure area. If it weren't for the vented reservoir, the fluid would blow out through the seals when the drive gets hot. When things get cold, they contract, creating a low pressure area. The water outside the drive has more PSI than the inside of the lower unit at that point and basic physics tells us we have a vacuum.
Same thing happens to 4 wheel dirve rigs when they submerge the front hubs in water. The hot hubs/spindles cool which creates a low pressure area (vacuum) which sucks the water right in. Good lube and good seals lessen this but cannot prevent it completely.
There are even people out there using the Merc HP lube still and not having problems. Must be something to do with how they are holding there mouth.
First, I do sell Amsoil just in case someone takes me to task for that, but only since my friend was told by Teague to run it in the new Platinum drives he got and nobody else sold it around here.
Second, I am sure Redline is great lube. There are alot of racers using it.
I have not tested either lube under these conditions, but apparantly Teague did or he would not be suggesting Amsoil.
Someone said he normally endorses Redline.
I hope you don't think you can place a hot drive in cold water and NOT expect some water to be sucked in thru the seals. It's not much if the seals are in good condition, and it burns off, but it's inevitable.
Remember, when things get hot, they expand, creating a high pressure area. If it weren't for the vented reservoir, the fluid would blow out through the seals when the drive gets hot. When things get cold, they contract, creating a low pressure area. The water outside the drive has more PSI than the inside of the lower unit at that point and basic physics tells us we have a vacuum.
Same thing happens to 4 wheel dirve rigs when they submerge the front hubs in water. The hot hubs/spindles cool which creates a low pressure area (vacuum) which sucks the water right in. Good lube and good seals lessen this but cannot prevent it completely.
There are even people out there using the Merc HP lube still and not having problems. Must be something to do with how they are holding there mouth.
Last edited by NW_Jim; 12-25-2002 at 03:47 PM.
12-26-2002, 10:52 AM
#20
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Jim I agree on a four wheel drive but not and outdrive ,Mine is never hot when I but it in the water and the grease tends to repel the water at the seals and I have just never had that problem ,must be holding my mouth right . As I said I like amsoil in the motors but the one product red line makes shock proof gear oil is just better in test we've run . I'm not slaming any product just saying whats best in my experances, I think its great you sell amsoil .
about the caps it takes me longer to post as I don't type well to shift so I use caps as I have for a year so if you offended ,I build engines and I'm not a typist
about the caps it takes me longer to post as I don't type well to shift so I use caps as I have for a year so if you offended ,I build engines and I'm not a typist
