Alpha L/H- Who has experience?
 

As mentioned in several other threads here in the last few weeks, I am looking to replace one of my R/H alpha drives with a L/H counter rotater.
Now I have been told by a boat dealer NOT to. He stated that the L/H counter rotating alphas are weak and prone to breakdown.
I need advise, if this i so, I certainly would NOT want to replace the drive.
This is on an 87 Baja Force 280 with stock twin 454s. 250 hrs total on the boat.

Thanks, Jim

I checked into it. I had heard they were just rh alphas running in reverse, which it isn't designed to do. Two weeks ago, I had to have a drive rebuilt and I asked my mechanic if it was true. He assured me that it is actually designed to hold the load in that direction. He has Mercruiser's highest award for mechanics, so I tend to believe him. If someone knows where one is, I'd like to check into it. Never hurts to have a spare Alpha.

LH Alpha is OK
 

The left hand drive alpha is almost entirely different than the right hand drive Alpha. The difference is in the lower gearcase. You need only purchase a new gearcase to convert over to a counter rotating prop.They seem to hold up just fine but many mechanics won't work on them because they are a little more complicated and require special tools. Many times these same mechanics will steer people away from them for this reason. Any Alpha drive in front of a 454 engine is going to give reliability problems if not driven VERY carefully. I would hate to be on vacation and need to find a mechanic to repair a LH Alpha drive. Because they are not very common you will have a tough time finding a mechanic that will rebuild it with confidence. I am a Mercruiser Master Tech and have only rebuilt a handful of them and most factory trained Mercruiser mechanics have only rebuilt one in service school.
Sincerely
Dennis Moore

Cuda,

I have found them rebuilt at this website: http://www.sterndrives.com/

Don't know if there are better deals out there or not. The counter rotating alphas are $3,000 rebuilt.

Dennis,

Always nice to have someone in the know give it to you straight. Thanks for the info.

Jim

I know that this is probably not what you want to hear, but 454's make quite a bit of torque for an alpha, have you looked into Bravo one conversions? Or into Alpha SS's?

I wonder is the ever made an alpha ss CR.

HyperBaja

Going to Bravos is more money than I want to put into this old boat. I'm told the alphas will hold up with stock motors.

Jim

My mechanic put over 3000 hours on a heavy fishing boat with 454 and alpha. I'm sure that is from keeping oil in them instead of salt water.

Two questions. 1 Is the Alpha SS that much stronger than the Std Alpha? (I have twin SS with 320 horse efi small blocks)
2 Is there a LH SS?
Thanks

Not sure about an alpha ss lh. Good point, not putting all that money into an old boat. As for the alpha holding up....A local guy installed a 350hp small block with a 125 shot of nitrous on a ski boat with an alpha back in 1991. So far, no problems. So as long as you take your time getting on plane, you should be fine.

I've heard both ways on the SS. Some say they have stronger gears, and others say they are the same. I tend to believe they are all the same. Still wondering about the CR SS myself.

Again thanks. Appreciate your input.

Jim

The ss has developed a cult like following. It has a reputation for being stronger and faster. I'm pretty sure the faster part is true because it's smaller than a standard alpha (I think shorter). The stronger part I question. It would be nice to hear from someone who knows..... Does the ss have different (stronger) parts than a standard alpha.

Mike

Mike as you say the SS is faster, about 5 MPH on a 20' Cig with twin turbos I did a number of years ago. Still uses the same gears as the regular drive, so no stronger. It is hard to hurt one with a small block, but the big block setup has too much torque for it to last under hard use.

I have alphas on twin 350mags. I have problems when I run them hard on shifting in and out of gear. I adjust them, they shift perfect all season, I run em hard, and they are harder to shift. I learned that If I change the oil in them frequently, they shift a lot better.

I take off easy with them and once im on plane I hammer the s**T out of them. I keep them in the water, and if they start coming out, I watch the throttles closely.

I do wish I had bravos, but I am with you jimmy, not spending that kind of money on this boat.

JimmyBaja,
I converted my 26' Sutphen twin 350 Mag boat from standard to counter-rotating Alpha's two years ago. The difference is night and day when it comes to handling. No reliability issues to-date. I believe that even if you run a tie bar, the torque from std. rotating drives will wear out your gimbals and steering components faster than counter-rotating units. Your mechanic can answer this question. So you win on both these issues.
Look for someone that is repowering and moving up to Bravo's. That will likely be your cheepest source for a set of c/r Alphas. Have your mechanic look at them prior to purchasing.

Sutphil
 

Did you gain any mph with the switch?????????
Just curious

I think it is 2" shorter than a standard alpha, and has a nosecone.

Geeter-B,
Top speed, no. But now the boat handles so much better that you can run faster in all conditions. So in that sence, yes.

i have a 26 foot scorpion with a pair of standard alphas on back and have been thinking about converting to counter rotation. just today i talked to a guy at outdrives.com about the project. he informed me that while the SS might give you a few more MPH due to the raised X dim. you pick up a significant risk factor because the parts and servicability just isnt avaliable for that drive. kinda like the speedmaster #2 . . .sure its a better drive but if you hurt it your gonna be down for a while. besides i have been looking for a pair of SS's for the last 5 or 6 months and have not seen a single one. he advised just replacing one of my drives with a new left hand unit and keep mine for a spare. i can live with that because it just cut the conversion cost in half :D :D . . . that means more gas money :rolleyes: :D :cool:

dennis moore- im assuming you are the one that wrote the book on building the marine small blocks. if so thanks for the great info. that book has been invaluable to me. i'm a big fan of the small block :cool: . . .i am curently looking for a 27 sport magnum to re-do.and i am thinking about smallblocks with brovos. what do you think about a pair of GM 350 RamJet EFI crate motors. can they be marinized and would they be a good choice. i have used several GM TPI set ups on street rods that i have had GREAT luck with them. thanks again.

Sterndrive.com told me there is NO SS LH drive.
Oh well, guess I'll have more gas money, unless I break one
Hyper Baha- yes they are 2'' shorter than std Alpha, I was a little confused when I went to install the drive showers, and they did not fit!

I'm just happy to hear that the alpha counter rotaters are not a problem waiting to happen. I'll keep the old one for a spare.

Jimmy

I'm going to look at an SS tomorrow. The guy that owns it said the lower unit off a 2.5 racing merc fits the SS. I'm not sure if the gearing is the same.

i'm gonna hafta look into the 2.5 lower case thing. packinair has a few laying around i can measure off. what is the weak link in an alpha anyway. what gives first under max HP.

sonic30ss- thats interesting about the no LH drive in an SS. funny i actually forgot to ask the guy at outdrive.com about that. i would have thought they offered a counter rotator in the performance application. do you have any pics of your boat you can post. i always thought the 30ss was a great looking boat. what kind of speed are seeing with your boat.

Here is some info I got from a guy on Ebay on an aplha L/H. Is this a good price?
These are coming out of Canada.
Thanks, Jim


"I do have new counter rotation your price 1800.00 US
plus shipping no core, that is for lower only, retail price
2695.00"

Sounds a little high for 1 piece, but they are so hard to find. I looked at one on ebay a while back for $900---hind sight I would have bought it.

--I think the weak link on the alpha's is the gears?? I heard you blow em out with high horses.

Glassdave, I'll try to post a pic, I don't have any really good ones yet, I bougth the boat in Sept. of last year so I spent the last months of the season out trying to get the hang of trimming drives and K planes. It's my first boat (nothing like jumping right in!).
The boat will supposedly run 72+, but I had a little problem with a fuel pressure regulator that detonated the cr*p out of two pistons. SOOO after rebuilding both engines, and doing a little head work, new injectors,regulators ect.... we should be up to aprox. 350 hp per side, we'll have to see this year. I did manage 65gps with one hurt motor and one with mismatched cylinder heads! Oh, the motors are Merc racing 5.7l 320horse efis.
Baja runner my mechanic told me the torque of the big bloclks when coming on or off plane is what seems to kill the Alphas, not to say that a small block won't hurt them espcially if you don't pull back on the sticks when you come out of the water.
OK if I could get a little help here I've scanned the pic into my pictures, but can't seem to get it on to the OSO message.
Thanks

BajaRunner,
The fact that you have twins should extend the life of your drives.

Glassdave, did you find out anything about the 2.5 lowers? I'm thinking of buying this unit.

BajaRunner

I have also heard the same thing about blowing out the alphas. I am hoping this old boat doesn't have the torque to do that...

Thanks, jim

cuda- actually i spoke before i knew what i was talking about. :rolleyes: i re-read the thread and i see that they might fit on the SS drives and i have std. alphas on my boat. so i dont have any thing to compare them to. i would be happy to take some pics or measurments though if anybody could tell from that info.

sonic- cant wait to see the pics. thats a pretty nice pakage with the efi small blocks. earlier in this thread i mentioned i am in the market for a sport magnum, if i never find the right one of those it will be a 30ss for sure. either way it will have a pair of fulie small blocks. heres a pic of the one i set up for my 71 camaro.

When is the alpha XR coming out :eureka:

Glass Dave thats a pretty cool Camaro, are those Vette wheels?
I don't want to seem dumb, but how did you attach that pic??
Thanks
Joe

So....no LH Alpha SS.....chit! Even though my boat is a Fountain it has a very conservative X dimension, I cant blow my props out if I tried.....my idea was to swap for a set of SS drives to shorten my X and pick up some badly needed top end. ...Oh Well....good to know if I ever decide to uprade to bravos I'll have a market for the alphas........Doug

Glassdave- Afriend of mine swapped in a 350 tuned port in front of his alpha, couldnt get it to work because the TPI has no provision for the ignition shift interupter. he had to turn the motor off to shift!! Ended up putting the carb motor back in. There would be no such problem with a Bravo however.......Doug

Sutphill- you have any props lyin' around?? left and righthand??

sonic- yes they are vette wheels. actually they were on the car when i bought it . they seemed to go with the car better after i put the TPI in it. man . . i tell ya one thing . . .i will NEVER run a carb motor again. EFI is the ONLY way to go. :cool: as for post'n pics. under the text box where you type in your reply to a thread there is a thing that says "attach file" and a blank box that says "browse", left clik that an it will bring up a choose file box. use the "look in" box to go to file you keep your pics in , left clik the one you want to post, hit open. make sure the pics are the right size to post. no bigger than 480X360 i think and no bigger than 75K or somthing like that :cool:

twinn29- thank for the info. actually that is somthing i hadnt thought of. i was kinda torn between the alpha or the brovo for that aplication. that kinda seals it for the brovo. any chance you could get any pics form your friend. i'm curious what he did with the 02 sensor. i will be using a speed density system so no mass air sensor. thanks

My brother has a 32' SeaRay Pachanga w/twin 454s & Alpha drives. They have been thru over 600 hrs, disassembled last year & checked out, and a normal drive service performed. Drive fluid is changed every 50hr or once a season. They still look almost like new inside. This boat will run 65-70+ mph depending on conditions. He has had virtually no problems with the alpha's. Had to replace some seals, and thats it.

The only bad thing about this boat is the Alpha's are both standard rotation drives w/cleaver style factory props & prop torque is terrible. Always have to lower one tab signifcantly to keep boat from listing due to prop torque. In 88 merc changed over to Bravo's on the Pachanga. His is an 87 with a very, very rare factory arch, that even has full front & side window curtains !
Really nice if you get caught in the rain, or want to run in the cold weather.

Overall, a really clean, nice running & handeling boat.

Otherwise, hes not easy, nor hard on the props, comes out the hole pretty hard, and usually runs along about 50mph or so.

TeamSonic42

I agree with your post. I have had the 87 Baja Force 280 for two years and have had no problems with the aplhas. Keeping my fingers crossed... Still looking for anyone that might have a good deal on a L/H rotation...

Jim

glassdave- I'll ask him about the 02 sensor, he's a cool guy and that would be a good excuse for a drop by to his shop. If you want I'll ask him if I could give you his phone number so you could call him at his shop to talk to him directly. Actually I looked into putting the TPIs on and after talking to him I emailed Arizona Speed and Marine and they didnt have any kind of a kit for the swap but that was awhile ago.......Doug