How fast will it go? ** RESULTS **
 

Results will be in soon. Boat is an 89 BAJA Force 235, weight is around 4600 on the water. Original power was 330 with a speed of 58 on speedo. Second power was 502 mag crate motor with stock cam, unknown power but lets say 425. Speed was 68 on GPS and a light run at the end of the year of 70 GPS under ideal conditions. New power is 502 with Nickerson Carb and his cam, B&M 250. No head mods etc. Both 502's had Lightning headers. I will find out middle of the week when the new prop shows up.

Tim T.

you will probably see a 10 - 12 mph gain with the 250. Good luck.

80

What prop did you use with the 502 cratemotor? I have just installed a 502 mag MPI with Rex(Gil) exhaust in a 1988 Baja 235 Force. Hope to see 68 with a 23 inch Mirage Plus. Will test it tomorrow.

Mats,
I used a heavily modified 25 Mirage Plus. The blades were thinned and re shaped as well as the diameter being cut down a 1/4 inch. This prop gave me better mid range speed than the 23 MP but about the same on top. I think you will be fine with the 23 Mirage Plus. I tried it and would have liked to keep it but I already paid for the 25 MP that was modified. You are welcome to try this one out or my 25 Mirage. I also tried a 25 Mirage and it worked pretty well. Both of these as well as a box stock 25 MP with solid hub are for sale.

Have you looked at the hooks on your hull? I think a little speed is there if you were to remove them. Baja sold these boats with all around performance in mind and many came with SB Alpha and no tabs. I have plans to remove them but don't have the time right now. With a BB and tabs and speeds into the 60's I don't think they are needed. Keep us posted as how you make out. I think you will be pleased. What power were you running before?

Tim T.

69 mph
 

Ruined a good crate mt. ,,,,,your transom will be nickerson black


Hope not but ,2 off my friends did the same and got those results

Great luck to you though

Cessna,
pretty optimistic huh? I have run the boat. Idles perfect and at midrange the plugs are chocolate to light tan. One 5200 RPM pass with a fresh plug in #7 hole and it was tan. Prop was too small so I could not wring it out.

OK, lets be specific. How long ago did these problems occur? What problems did they have? Was the engine properly blower prepped? Anything I should look out for in particular? Help if you can. You sound like you have some first hand experience.

Tim T.

Tim glad you didn't take it as an insult .
Nickerson is kown for not indexing power valves,which is the old school for tuning a carb for blowers much has been written on this board if you do a search on power valves ,ect
So he hax to make the mixture over rich to compensate for the carb not knowing how rich or lean it needs to be under part throttle as I understand there is always a vacum under the carb
and fools the carb ,,,so his transoms do show a rich condition


good luck it will work but better if it was indexed ( more h.p. and milage)

When I bought my Top Gun the carbs had recently been done by someone in Cali. The boat was unuseable, fouling plugs every ride. I sent the carbs to Nickerson to be set up. 671`s Superchillers. The boat idles great and runs clean all the way through.

I could not be happier with Dean Nickersons work. As far as I am concerned, he is The Master of Holley carbs.

Nickerson carbs completely eliminated my black transom problem.

Kurt

I THINK I'M GOING TO PUKE NOW :D

i AGREE with cesna look at some of the older threads on this ,its proven not a feeling or guess . You had something wrong with one set had one guy fix it and now he's the best and no ones better NOT,you'd pass-out to have them indexed right .
Cessna has the right idea but you need to learn more about it
on the old threads ,just my 2 cents worth :D :D

Hopefully you will see high 70's to 80 MPH, but everything will have to be right to get that heavy of boat to those kinds of speeds. As for Nickerson Carbs they have worked very well on my NA motors and friends' blower motors. Don't mean to make you puke Bobby.:D

Hey Bobby,
If you want a shot with one of your carbs I am willing to give it a try, but only with a radar speed increase guarantee while maintaining the durability and clean idle of the Nickerson. My boat does 98 MPH and if you can find me 1 or 2 MPH without leaning it out I am all for it. With the 13.2:1 compression ratio I run if it gets lean detonation sets in pretty quickly. Let me know.:cool: Oh ya no black transoms allowed either.;)

Hey ,as you will note all my references have been towards blown motors ,right .
Anyone can come to you with a carb and tune it at the lake for you and get more speed ,THATS NOT A PROBLEM ,I don't care if its me or who if they are true tuners ,,,so you offer is good but would not be fair to you .
The issue with nickerson stays ,,he needs to idex the blower motor carbs which is what I'm saying and have been saying .
If he made you happy thats great ,thats what counts ,I don;t think for 1 min. I'm the carb king I have a lot of friends who do better and as well (blown1500 is one ) but they all to my knowlge
index power valves ,
This is stupid for me to argue about with you as I don't think you even begin to grasp what I'm saying ,I'm trying to help people do better with their blower mt.and thats it , I still agree with cessna ,ect have a good one :D :D

As I posted before, my Nickerson carbs work great, no black transom and I`m very happy with the results.

Bobby,

I do understand boost-indexing, and have seen with my own eyes some Nickerson carbs and I promise you they had been boost-indexed (external line and all).

Maybe he doesn't do them all that way, but these carbs were Holley box-stockers that came back boost-indexed, and had the powervalve feed holes enlarged, along with some other mods. The owner had no idea what Nickerson had been "instructed" to do with the carbs (his engine builder had sent the carbs to Nickerson with instructions) but the carbs were shipped directly from Nickerson to the guy who showed them to me before he bolted them up. He only showed them to me because he thought they looked cool and I was somebody he thought would appreciate them (poor guy - they just looked like carbs to me). He did let me take them apart and look at them.

He also bolted them up and they run well. 250 blower.

Thanks mc that makes good sense and thats great news ,thanks again :D :D

Amazing how a simple question about speed can turn into whats the best way to tune a carb within only 6 replies. ;) If I know you Tim, you have investigated this topic throughly before you sent the carb out.

My guess is that you will hit 83mph using a 28" prop.
Good luck.
Whats the winner get?????? :D

My blower motor carb was also done by Nickerson and i have no problems.....But i also had the motor dynoed there so i may had a far better advantage than most. I don't know enough about indexing to know what he did or did not do, but i have no problems whatsoever.

Hi-perf 2000 your right the dyno would have shown the to rich condition and I bet yours is right

US 1 ,,, cessna and the others of us where only doing what this board is for that is trying to help others like Tim and Hi-perf and Biggus,who don't know what indexing is !!
And giving biggus a chance to post picture his motors .:D

I don't think cessna brought this up execpt to help and voice his views like myself ,this old lady bickering is what makes guys who know stop trying to help others learn,,they get tired of the wa wa waa ,,,6 post waaaa
Have a good day us1:D :D

This carb question is like beating a dead horse. If you don't boost reference, you cannot make a proper fuel curve. If you could, Holley would not boost reference their blower carbs. That is all I am going to say about this.

BadDog,
Just my opinion here:
I've driven that same boat with a 502 (a little under 500hp) at over 70mph. I personally did not feel the boat could be driven at higher speeds safely.
I would sincerely hope you have external hydraulic steering on it. With the wear and weakness of bravo gimbals, you'll definitely need it for those speeds.
If ANYONE needs a reminder of what can happen when adding a lot of hp to a boat, look up posts from "kook". Sad story.
I'm not trying to preach, just my opinion.
Gary

could some one explain the term boost reference?
thank you
later
Dave Hughes

Dave a super charger is always creating vacum under the carb thats mounted on it there fore the carb does not get true signals at part throttle ( sometimes the motor will be in boost at part throttle but the powervalve is closed as it still see's a vacum so it cooks the pistons ect.in a lean cond.)),to index or boost referance is to run a vacum line down to the intake under the charger and drill a passage into the power valve circuit in the carb ,,the carb gets true signals and the jetting and power valve can be adjusted right on no matter what the blower is doing under the carb or throttle setting ,,this is the extreme basic explaination ,if you need more just p.m. me :D :D :D

HOPE THIS HELPS YOU :D

Easy there boss. ;) I didn't mean this to come off as a slam in any way. Saying in only 6 replies was my bad.

I know Tim well enough to know that he researches all this stuff before hand and that he still felt very comfortable about choicing Dean. I could be wrong. (Been told I have been before, but I still don't believe her. ;) )

I agree, that all of the info on this board comes from either direct answers to questions asked, or from replies such as from cessnas that bring up more questions.

Jerry

Bobby,
Isn't the boost reference going to
be from the intake, under the supercharger ??

jt

Your for sure righjt ,,my typo it has to come under the charger to get a true reading///sorry for that typo and great catch ,I can't type or spell for sure !!!!!!!!!!

USA_! sorry I thought it was a slam fess getting ready to open ,
sorry I read it wrong:D :D :D

My guess is 82 MPH before ...
 

... the poor old Bravo grenades!! :D

Remind me not to ride in that boat with you, because it will either...

A. Get me killed

or

B. End up costing me a ton of money to keep up and land in divorce court.

Good luck and have fun!

Hmm, you been through how many drives in how many hours now? Just kidding LOL! It all goes back to the 12 inch theory. (For those who don't understand this concept BudMan was contemplating upgrading a 350 to BBC and keeping the Alpha. His plan was to take it easy, the Alpha won't know the difference if you are gentle. I ask him if he had a 12 inch ___ how much would he not use?)

I think if I am easy on the stick and don't accelerate hard that it will live some additional time. When it goes it goes. I am due anyway.

As you know I have about a thousand hours seat time in this boat in many conditions. It felt very stable when testing and I was breaking 75. Just pay attention to all things, it ain't a toy when you are going that fast. Saturday looks iffy on the weather. Sunday looks good. Let's get yours running Saturday. 70 plus on Sunday and the river is looking great!

Tim, looks like you're still using the 12-inch D**K theory to me... :D

Sounds like you got the water pressure problem straightened out...

Tim,

Thanks for the information on the prop. The original engine was a 7.4L , 330 crankshaft hp. I tested the 502 MPI today with some problems. I will start a new thread on that one.....

Mats

Tom,

Try to use it everyday! I know it will scatter, everything does sooner or later. I just want to get a summer out of it so I am not over budget this year. Water pressure situation is close, just need a little co-operation in the weather. What about Sunday?

I don't think we are doing anything on Sunday.

Mats,

Just curious, what kind of speed and RPM were you getting with the 330? What prop were you running? I have the same exact boat, but mine started life as a small block/Alpha. Changed over to a warmed over 454/Bravo. Currently getting around 60, expected more.

Tested today with a 27 Mirage Plus. Spun it about 5400. Speed was 79 upriver in a 2 to 3 MPH current and glass smooth water. RPM was high due to having to give it a little more trim to get the bow up. Lots of prop slip up top due to excess trim.

Boat was very stable at this speed, no hint of chine walk or anything. I think my hooks need to come off. The faster you go it just feels like the hull is planting the nose more, way too much boat in the water. Overall I am very satisfied.

I worked out the block pressure problem with a 3/4 pressure relief valve. I have it now where the pressure is 18 at cruise and around 20 at WOT. Engine temp at WOT was about 155 and 140 at cruise. Oil got up to 240 at WOT.

Overall a successful project so far.

Tim T.

Surely you can squeeze a bit more of it. :) Push down harder!!

I ran 83mph with a 27 Hydro. I think right at 5500? With my boat a 27 Fountain, actual running length was probably real close to what you have. Weight was 4950, according to factory spec sheet.
Glad to hear you got it all dialed in with temps and pressure.
Now, how was the throtle response?

There is more, but I want to clean it up and have some fun first. Hooks and props. Throttle response, one word. Infingcredible

Nice speeds!
 

Sounds like it is going pretty well so far. Don't forget to do some plug readings especially on a new motor. Let me know if removing the "baja hooks" helps. I am searching for a couple of MPH to get me into triple digits and that was something I considered. Many differing opinions on pros and cons of removing those hooks. At speed over 70 on my boat the hooks are out of the water and really only seeing spray or "soft water" as I have heard it termed so the speed gains may only be minimal. I have consulted with Baja about these hooks and they agreed that the speed gains would be there, but probably minimal and warned me that the boat may tend to porpoise at cruising speeds and the hole shot may suffer. I am not about to put tabs on a 21' boat so it may not be an option for me. Good luck and be sure to post any results you come up with on the hooks.

At least 82 if not more.

Re: How fast will it go?
 

Hi all,

something new about the best engine into a Baja 235 FORCE? How about a 600hp one? Would that still work out with Bravo one for a safety top speed?

Damian

Re: How fast will it go?
 

BadDog, did you have a 25' Nordic for sale last fall?

Re: How fast will it go?
 

78 Mph