Bad 6AL Box??
06-08-2003, 11:27 AM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Bad 6AL Box??
Hi guys,
I think my 1 year old MSD 6AL box is craping out on me. The boat will fire 20 times on a row on the hose (I tried that while diagnosing this thing) then I go to the water, fires right up......THEN......if I shut it off, there is no spark when I go to re-fire. It will crank like mad, all ignition stuff is on (i.e. elec fuel pump is turning) but no spark. If it sits for 20-30 minutes, it fires right back up.
I have put new batteries in it (I needed to anyway) to cross that out....all fuses fine. I did put a 6k chip in it....not sure why that would affect the box like this, but I put it in this year and the problem started this year.
ANy thoughts??
Thanks guys.....Allan
I think my 1 year old MSD 6AL box is craping out on me. The boat will fire 20 times on a row on the hose (I tried that while diagnosing this thing) then I go to the water, fires right up......THEN......if I shut it off, there is no spark when I go to re-fire. It will crank like mad, all ignition stuff is on (i.e. elec fuel pump is turning) but no spark. If it sits for 20-30 minutes, it fires right back up.
I have put new batteries in it (I needed to anyway) to cross that out....all fuses fine. I did put a 6k chip in it....not sure why that would affect the box like this, but I put it in this year and the problem started this year.
ANy thoughts??
Thanks guys.....Allan
06-08-2003, 12:20 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
ooopss, one more thing, the box is warm to the touch, I don't know if that is out of the ordinary. Seems like when it cools down it will fire....boat runs fine, even at WOT. Also, the tach seems off as well. I am gonna pull the rev chip if we get out today and see if that helps at all (temporary solution)......AS SOON AS IT STOPS RAINING!!!!!!!!!
Is this box shot?
Is this box shot?
06-08-2003, 01:53 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Can't BE THE BOX bOBBY DANIELS SAYS THEY DON'T BREAK !!
No really if the chip does not fix it and the coil is good its time to send the box to MSD for a 50. dollar repair
you described how it and the coil fail perfectly,,sorry !!!!
I can't wait for my buddies the crane guys
have a dry day soon
No really if the chip does not fix it and the coil is good its time to send the box to MSD for a 50. dollar repair
you described how it and the coil fail perfectly,,sorry !!!!
I can't wait for my buddies the crane guys
have a dry day soon
06-08-2003, 02:40 PM
#6
Toxic FORMULA
Platinum Member
Originally posted by bobby daniels
Can't BE THE BOX bOBBY DANIELS SAYS THEY DON'T BREAK !!
Can't BE THE BOX bOBBY DANIELS SAYS THEY DON'T BREAK !!
At least your a good sport about it Bob
06-08-2003, 07:52 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
A few notes for diagnosing MSD Ignition...
and to determine if your MSD is producing a spark. This should let you icolate your problem without throwing parts at it. Make sure power and grounds are good, and the correct plug wires are being used <<< the most important thing is to verify that your wires meet the specs below... if not, THAT is what caused the problem>>> Remember, CAUSE AND EFFECT when approaching these problems.
I hope this will help you figure it out without mistakes... Good luck!
White Wire Trigger:
If you are using the White wire (points or electronic amplifier) of the MSD to trigger the ignition, follow these steps.
1. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Off position.
2. Remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and position the terminal so it is approximately 1/2" from a good ground.
3. Disconnect the MSD White wire from the distributor points or the ignition amplifier.
4. Turn the ignition to the On position. DO NOT CRANK THE ENGINE.
5. Tap the White wire to ground several times. Each time the wire is pulled away from ground a spark should jump from the coil wire to ground. If spark is present, the ignition is working properly.
If there is no spark:
A. Inspect all of the wiring.
B. Substitute another coil and test again. If there is now spark, the coil is at fault.
C. If there is still no spark, check to make sure there is 12 volts on the small Red wire from the MSD when the key is in the On position. If 12 volts are not present, find another 12 volt source and repeat the test.
D. After inspecting the test procedures and inspecting all of the wiring, there is still no spark, the Ignition is at fault. See the Warranty and Service Page for Information.
Magnetic Pickup Trigger:
If you are using the 2-Pin Magnetic Pickup of the MSD to trigger the ignition, follow these steps.
1. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Off position.
2. Remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and position the terminal so it is approximately 1/2" from a good ground.
3. Disconnect the MSD Magnetic Pickup connector from the distributor.
4. Turn the ignition to the On position. DO NOT CRANK THE ENGINE.
5. With a small jumper wire, short the Green and Violet magnetic pickup wires together then pull the jumper off. Each time the short is removed a spark should jump If spark is present, the ignition is working properly.
If there is no spark:
A. Inspect all of the wiring.
B. Substitute another coil and test again. If there is now spark, the coil is at fault.
C. If there is still no spark, check to make sure there is 12 volts on the small Red wire from the MSD when the key is in the On position. If 12 volts are not present, find another 12 volt source and repeat the test.
D. After inspecting the test procedures and inspecting all of the wiring, there is still no spark, the Ignition is at fault. See the Warranty and Service Page for Information.
Tachometer Operation
If your tachometer doesn't read correctly after installing an MSD, you may need a Tach Adapter. On GM vehicles, first remove the tach filter. There are two MSD Tach Adapters. Contact MSD Tech with the manufacturer of your tach and what you have installed on it to determine which Tach Adapter you will need.
Spark Plug Wires
If you suspect a spark plug wire to be open causing poor performance, check the resistance of each wire. By checking the resistance of each wire you will determine two things: That there is continuity (not open) and if there is too much resistance in the wire. Use an Ohm Meter and connect the terminals to the spark plug wire terminals. Use care to make sure there is good contact or the readings will be inaccurate. On MSD wires the resistance should be:
Heli-Core Wires (Blue):
150 - 1,200 ohms per foot
8.5mm Super Conductor (Red):
40 - 50 ohms per foot
If you do not know the specification for your wires, measure the resistance of each wire. Remember to divide the length of the wire by 12 to get a "per foot" measurement. If one wire is out of that average spec, it is at fault.
Solid Core Wires: You cannot run Solid Core Spark Plug Wires with an MSD Ignition Control. Solid Core wires do not suppress any Electro Magnetic Interference (EMI) which will interfere with electronics or rev limiters on your vehicle. A suppression style or spiral wound spark plug wire MUST be used.
Magnetic Pickup in the Distributor
The magnetic pickup in MSD Distributors can also be checked with an Ohm meter to make sure it is within operating specifications. Once again, connect the Ohm meter's leads to the two terminals of the pickup. The resistance should be within 400 - 1,300 ohms. If the resistance is out of this specification, inspect the condition of the wires leading to the pickup for abrasion, shorting or opens. If the wiring is okay, the pickup is at fault.
NOTE: The Ignition will check good if the pickup is at fault. Follow the Checking for Spark procedure.
Timing Fluctuations
If your timing seems to be jumping all over the place, check the following items:
What kind of timing light are you using? Many lights have trouble reading the MSD's capacitive discharge multiple sparks. Dial back
timing lights are not recommended. Try another non-adjustable light and check the timing again. MSD offers a Timing Light, PN 8990.
Make sure you are not using Solid Core wires.
Inspect the routing of the Magnetic Pickup Harness. It should be routed clear of the coil primary wires and plug wires.
It is best to route it along a ground plain such as the firewall, frame or engine block to form a shield around it.
Check the polarity of the magnetic pickup wires of the distributor. Reverse the connectors and check the timing again. The correct
polarity is whichever connection gives the most retarded timing.
On Chevrolet engines, if the timing is retarding 10 - 20 degrees inspect for cam-walk. This is especially prevalent on engines with
a chrome or stock timing chain cover that is actually bowing forward allowing the cam to "walk".
and to determine if your MSD is producing a spark. This should let you icolate your problem without throwing parts at it. Make sure power and grounds are good, and the correct plug wires are being used <<< the most important thing is to verify that your wires meet the specs below... if not, THAT is what caused the problem>>> Remember, CAUSE AND EFFECT when approaching these problems.
I hope this will help you figure it out without mistakes... Good luck!
White Wire Trigger:
If you are using the White wire (points or electronic amplifier) of the MSD to trigger the ignition, follow these steps.
1. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Off position.
2. Remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and position the terminal so it is approximately 1/2" from a good ground.
3. Disconnect the MSD White wire from the distributor points or the ignition amplifier.
4. Turn the ignition to the On position. DO NOT CRANK THE ENGINE.
5. Tap the White wire to ground several times. Each time the wire is pulled away from ground a spark should jump from the coil wire to ground. If spark is present, the ignition is working properly.
If there is no spark:
A. Inspect all of the wiring.
B. Substitute another coil and test again. If there is now spark, the coil is at fault.
C. If there is still no spark, check to make sure there is 12 volts on the small Red wire from the MSD when the key is in the On position. If 12 volts are not present, find another 12 volt source and repeat the test.
D. After inspecting the test procedures and inspecting all of the wiring, there is still no spark, the Ignition is at fault. See the Warranty and Service Page for Information.
Magnetic Pickup Trigger:
If you are using the 2-Pin Magnetic Pickup of the MSD to trigger the ignition, follow these steps.
1. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Off position.
2. Remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and position the terminal so it is approximately 1/2" from a good ground.
3. Disconnect the MSD Magnetic Pickup connector from the distributor.
4. Turn the ignition to the On position. DO NOT CRANK THE ENGINE.
5. With a small jumper wire, short the Green and Violet magnetic pickup wires together then pull the jumper off. Each time the short is removed a spark should jump If spark is present, the ignition is working properly.
If there is no spark:
A. Inspect all of the wiring.
B. Substitute another coil and test again. If there is now spark, the coil is at fault.
C. If there is still no spark, check to make sure there is 12 volts on the small Red wire from the MSD when the key is in the On position. If 12 volts are not present, find another 12 volt source and repeat the test.
D. After inspecting the test procedures and inspecting all of the wiring, there is still no spark, the Ignition is at fault. See the Warranty and Service Page for Information.
Tachometer Operation
If your tachometer doesn't read correctly after installing an MSD, you may need a Tach Adapter. On GM vehicles, first remove the tach filter. There are two MSD Tach Adapters. Contact MSD Tech with the manufacturer of your tach and what you have installed on it to determine which Tach Adapter you will need.
Spark Plug Wires
If you suspect a spark plug wire to be open causing poor performance, check the resistance of each wire. By checking the resistance of each wire you will determine two things: That there is continuity (not open) and if there is too much resistance in the wire. Use an Ohm Meter and connect the terminals to the spark plug wire terminals. Use care to make sure there is good contact or the readings will be inaccurate. On MSD wires the resistance should be:
Heli-Core Wires (Blue):
150 - 1,200 ohms per foot
8.5mm Super Conductor (Red):
40 - 50 ohms per foot
If you do not know the specification for your wires, measure the resistance of each wire. Remember to divide the length of the wire by 12 to get a "per foot" measurement. If one wire is out of that average spec, it is at fault.
Solid Core Wires: You cannot run Solid Core Spark Plug Wires with an MSD Ignition Control. Solid Core wires do not suppress any Electro Magnetic Interference (EMI) which will interfere with electronics or rev limiters on your vehicle. A suppression style or spiral wound spark plug wire MUST be used.
Magnetic Pickup in the Distributor
The magnetic pickup in MSD Distributors can also be checked with an Ohm meter to make sure it is within operating specifications. Once again, connect the Ohm meter's leads to the two terminals of the pickup. The resistance should be within 400 - 1,300 ohms. If the resistance is out of this specification, inspect the condition of the wires leading to the pickup for abrasion, shorting or opens. If the wiring is okay, the pickup is at fault.
NOTE: The Ignition will check good if the pickup is at fault. Follow the Checking for Spark procedure.
Timing Fluctuations
If your timing seems to be jumping all over the place, check the following items:
What kind of timing light are you using? Many lights have trouble reading the MSD's capacitive discharge multiple sparks. Dial back
timing lights are not recommended. Try another non-adjustable light and check the timing again. MSD offers a Timing Light, PN 8990.
Make sure you are not using Solid Core wires.
Inspect the routing of the Magnetic Pickup Harness. It should be routed clear of the coil primary wires and plug wires.
It is best to route it along a ground plain such as the firewall, frame or engine block to form a shield around it.
Check the polarity of the magnetic pickup wires of the distributor. Reverse the connectors and check the timing again. The correct
polarity is whichever connection gives the most retarded timing.
On Chevrolet engines, if the timing is retarding 10 - 20 degrees inspect for cam-walk. This is especially prevalent on engines with
a chrome or stock timing chain cover that is actually bowing forward allowing the cam to "walk".
06-08-2003, 11:31 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
WOW!!!!
I'll print that and take it with me tomorrow night when we head to the water with a circuit tester....
I am going to borrow another coil and see what happens there....hopefully that is the issue.
We'll find out shortly...!
Thanks for all the replies guys....
Allan
I'll print that and take it with me tomorrow night when we head to the water with a circuit tester....
I am going to borrow another coil and see what happens there....hopefully that is the issue.
We'll find out shortly...!
Thanks for all the replies guys....
Allan
