Engine Failed/ Question is? Long
 

Hey guys a friend of mine ran into some problems and I'll
share the story best I know.

He has a single engine 29' PowerQuest, had a real nice
no exspense spared built 540ci dynoed at 550hp.
When he bought the boat a year or so ago it had
the cutler fuel injection on it for those that are familiar
with it. Only down fall I had seen to the Engine in
my opinion.

Well because of the constant re-mapping of the
fuel sytem, he had enough and wanted to go back to
a traditional carb and intake.
So he called the marine ( mechanic ) in Hudsonville
to get a quote on a Carb and intake. Turns out
the mechanic had just the answer for him. He had a
used B&M 250 blower with a single Dominator carb.

Short while later he was excited and having it installed.
While installing it Mechanic also said he thought he heard a lifter noise and that he should get it checked out.

Being a mechanic
would you install a blower if it had lifter noise? Why wouldn't
you fix it, if you have 20 plus years in the marine mechanic
field?

Got it back, took it out to Lake Michigan and lost 500 rpm
and it was 1 mile and hour slower than it was with the cutler
injection.
He asked some of our opinions, and we suggested
timing may be off and or jetted wrong. It also smelled
rich in fuel and was turning the back of his boat black.
Also the boat was back firing when coming of plane.

He called the mechanic and questioned him on the timing.
Mechanic said he set it 8 degrees at an idle, My friend said
to the mechanic he was told it should be set at full advanced a 30 degrees.

Mechanic got defensive and said he has 20 plus years
in the marine business and that is how he always does it.
Also stated he didn't like cranking the engine up to full
advance for fear of clasping the garden hose.

Frustrated my friend called another of his buddys and asked
him to bring his timing light over. They cranked it up to
full advanced and found it to only be at 18 degrees full
advanced. So they changed it to 30 degrees.

Took it out to the lake picked up 500 rpms and 3 miles
and hour over what he had with the cutler system.
But the engine still backfired while coming off plane.

Called the mechanic, let him know what they found
with the timing. Mechanic seemed a little embarrased
and said well I guess I need a better water supply.
Also mentioned the back firing and the mechanic
said to bring it back and he would try a different carb
on it.

So they did, now lets back up a minute.
My friend also dicovered that his pyrometer was removed
and pluged off. Mechanic said when he took the cutler
system off that he removed the pyrometer to and that he didn't need it.

So he gets the boat back and heads to the lake
with it. While idling down the channel the thing droped
a valve! The engine only had a 100 hours on it before
the blower install and 4 hours after the blower.

Pressure checked the exhaust manifolds and they are
fine. Called the mechanic he feels he did nothing wrong.
Questioned the mechanic on why he removed the pyrometer.
Stated to the mechanic had it been in there , they could have
seen it burning down. Mechanic said he can't answer that.
Again why, what was your reason, and again and again
and again I can't answer that.

It sounded like he and legal advice to say no more.

So what are your thoughts did he start to burn it down the
first weekend while running at 18 degrees full advanced?
Or do you think somthing else happened.

Do you think the machanic seen it was getting hot while
installing it, and couldn't figure out how to fix it so removed
the pyrometer? And then told him he had lifter noise?

What are your idea's and thoughts
and how should this be handled, because the mechanic
feels he is in the right?

He got 4 hours out of this setup?

Thanks for any insight

Cougarman

well the timing being low could have killed the intake valves due to heat ,, but comparing a blown (supercharged) motor to a fuel injected one is like apples and dogs ,,he should have picked up a min. of12mph from the injected motor ,,,the whole story is full of mistakes and problems ,,,did the guy give a warranty ??
Alot of shops don't as once it leaves their shop they can't control what is done with their motor ,evenas far as the fuel in it ??
so talk to the builder and get his take on it as he should have water tested and set the timing at least !!! did it melt any pistons ??
I would take it back to him and offer him a chance to make it right
and advise what he tells you (pm me if you like ))

Bobby Daniels
 

The guy just works on his own out of his home.
He used to work for a large operation.
He is a mechanic not an engine builder.

Anyway's I doubt there was a warrenty,
but would you honestly let him rebuild it
with as many things that were wrong already?


The engine was pulled and dropped of
at an engine ( Builders ) not the mechanic
on monday. They said to give them a day
or two before they had it torn down.

As soon as the exhaust manifold were pulled
you could see the valve missing.

Do you really think he would pick up
12 mph on a single engine 29' Power Quest?
I think it was running 68-70 mph with the
injection.

Also wouldn't 18 degrees full advance make
it detnate late? Like on the way out through
the exhaust valves and or in the exhaust?


Cougarman

I tried a blower 454 in my Checkmate the same set up B&M 250 with a single carb had a complete season of HELL! The guy that built it got sick of me calling every weekend and traded me for a carbed 502 and refunded the price of the blower. My take on it is if your going to build a big HP motor say over 500hp you need to go the extra mile and do a dyno pull to be safe then when you get out on the water you have no suprises. Is the builder Offshore Upgrades? He has a fair reputation but when your going for the big power you need someone real good not average.....I'd call Dave wesseldyke or Tom Earhart(locally) to get the combination right or if you want a Road trip Bobby and Blown 1500 have been very helpful to many of us!as far as getting anything out of the builder good luck....I've been bad mouthing RMP for several years becouse of a shi##y rebuild the motor ran 40 min. and it broke a valve spring fought it the complete season and then it puked they wouldn'y do crap for me either even though it was in ther shop about half the summer.

Long story short, I think your friend is out of luck. The only way you can expect a mechanic to garantee a motor is if he sells a complete engine. The valve could have been lost due to half dozen reasons that have nothing to due with the mechanic or blower. He bolted up a used blower on a used motor, he's responsible for the blower working.
BTW, I would consider a dual carb on a 250.
My $0.02,
Gary

Dyno
 

You guessed who.


I didn't think Earhart was doing much building these
days other than turbo engines and alot of dyno
work.


Cougarman

Gary Anderson
 

The builder he took it to also recommended dual carbs
for a number of reasons.

Also mention on bumping up in blower size so that
B&M 250 didn't have to work so hard to feed 540ci.
Creating extra heat etc.

Any thoughts on that? If he went that
route what is his used B&M 250 and domintor worth
for resale?


Cougarman

Money talks.... its a bad time of year for anyone to spend quality time on your stuff but good luck anyway. If the motor was on Toms Dyno the problems should have shown up before he dropped the valve....

I've seen the 250's with carbs for like $1500-$1800. Crazyhorse is runnig those blowers on 502's they run pretty good but with the 540 you might be right on it being a little small.

generaly the low timing will super heat the intake valve ,,and yes on things from stringrays to bullets going to a blower from carb or fuel injection is good for 12mph min or something is wrong
the 250 is a good blower and one 4500 works well it may not have perferfect fuel distribution but its fine and about 6lbs on a 540 ,,,what cam and heads and comp. do you have ??
yes a mega 420 blower B&N would do better and a whipple would do better but unless youve got to be the fastest around you have the good blower ,,, I have mega blowers and innercoolers around if needed but we can fix your motor :D :D