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Zz 572
This came up before, and it looks like the price is out. Check this out:
http://www.paceparts.com/product.asp?3=180219 Just some info. RJ |
I have been thinking about this motor since I first heard of it several months ago. The problems I see with it are that it is not a marine motor. You have to pay for a carb and distributor you can't use.. If you have salt water in the motor, you can't use the head gaskets at all. I would be leary about the heads themselves unless you can flush it out everytime you use it. The other question I have is regarding the cam profile. The listing says 632/632 lift, 254/264 duration @ .050 but what about the lobe seperation and centerline? I have a friend who works at a GM dealer, I just talked to him today about attemtping to find out more information. I will post it when and if I get it..
What do you guys think? |
the information states it will be available as a short block assembly. so that elimanates the heads, carb and headgasket issues, the cam easily changed at this phase. i to have been watch and waiting i work at a gm dealer and have been inquiring for months. not alot of information yet
later |
Later,
I have not seen anything regarding a short block 572. Do you have a GM part # or any other information? |
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It's probably the best thing that came out of GMPP in a long time, but at $12K+tax and shipping...you could build much better for the same or little more.
The block is already at .060 over...Whats up with that? Thats 6-7 seasons or 2 rebuilds off its service life. And the power output is not all that much... remember that it has to be spun at about 5400 for marine useage with a reversion free hyd roller cam...add $ there. Don't get me wrong its not that im flaming this motor its just not for powerboats. Specs, Horsepower 620 @ 5500 RPM Torque 650 Ft. Lbs. @ 4500 RPM Max. Recommended RPM 6000 RPM Compression Ratio 9.6:1 Block New! Sportsman Tall Deck Bowtie Gen VI 10.200" deck height Bore 4.560" Stroke 4.375" Crankshaft Forged 4340 steel Connecting Rods Forged 4340 steel, H-beam style, Shot peened Pistons Forged aluminum, Full floating wrist pin Piston Rings Plasma-moly rings Camshaft Hydraulic roller Valve lift: .632" I, .632" E Duration @ .050" 254Ί I, 264Ί E Lifters Hydraulic roller tappet Cylinder Heads Aluminum rectangular port 118cc combustion chamber Intake Valves 2.25" Stainless steel Exhaust Valves 1.88" Stainless steel Valve Springs Dual valve springs 1.540" coil diameter 1.800" installed height 197 Lbs. seat pressure Spring Retainers Hardened chromemoly steel Rocker Arms Aluminum roller rockers, 1.7:1 ratio Push Rods High performance one piece Intake Manifold New! Aluminum tall deck single plane 4150 series carburetor Carburetor 850cfm, mechanical secondary Rear Main Seal New! One-piece design Windage Tray New! Screened and louvered Damper High RPM torsional damper Distributor H.E.I. Ignition Timing 36Ί total advance Spark Plugs R42XLS Fuel 92 Octane |
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I bet the cam is this one. Crane
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I's like to see this as a short block..............I think that adding the right heads / cam / intake, you could get up to 700 HP, naturally aspirated.
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pace parts show the part #'s at
complete deluxe motor #12498793 long block #12498792 partial #12499190 at this time those are not good part #'s ive already checked. the last i heard they were still in the testing stage with the motors that was a couple months ago. but this is the first time ive seen Part #'s so ill be check it out from time to time. Back4more i agree with you that you could have one built for that money, i can buy for cost and thats what im looking at. later |
A short block without a camshaft would be the hot setup! GM could sell alot of them.
Except for the camshaft, I like the long block engine for marine use. If only I could afford to lay out the cash and not feel guilty about it! |
Go to racingjunk.com and see the classifieds for engines and components. There are a lot of top notch parts that can be had for $12,000.00. probably $4500.00 for a short block, $3000.00 for CNC heads, $800.00 for roller cma, $350 for intake, $400 oil pan, $500 for pushrods and misc. and you still have $3000.00 left over. someone would probably assemble this and test it for $1000.00. Use the extra money to buy some good exhaust and you'll run away and hide from the GM motor with the extra 100 hp. I know exactly about a setup like this, with Canfield 310 heads the motor made 755 hp@5800, at 9.5:1, torque was amazing from 3000 up. As a matter of fact that motor is for sale with headers, intake to pan for $16,500.00 including a set of GIL big guns, all billet 4340, dyno time only. Boat was sold before installation.
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Originally posted by later pace parts show the part #'s at complete deluxe motor #12498793 long block #12498792 partial #12499190 at this time those are not good part #'s ive already checked later As later said, the numbers are no good, but I had someone check today. They still are not available yet, but the short block is to be about $73-7400, and the long block about $10,500. |
when are they gonna be available....
Don |
I was wondering the same as Raypanic, Why .060 over and the 4.375 stroke as opposed to the standard 572 with 4.5 bore and 4.5 stroke. Is the shorter stroke to avoid the piston side loading with the 4.5 stroke?
Why is the Merc 900SC based on a 540 block and the 800 is a 572? |
Originally posted by chromecat when are they gonna be available.... Don As for the bore stroke combo, there are a few different ones that get you to 572. There are a lot of theories about rod length vs stroke & bore vs stroke. I think this combo was built by "choice" I'm not sure of the max stroke without clearancing. This may also have something to do with it ? These blocks (or at least the one's we've torn apart) are hard, and usually just require a "dusting" to clean up. It's not like boring / honing a stock block. I guess if you dont really scatter anything, you could easily get a few rebuilds out of it by just dusting the bores. Just my .02 If I get any more info, I will let you know. |
The Deluxe 9:1 engine P/N 12498793. These engines are being built at this time. They should be available very quickly. Popular Hot Rodding magazine just did a test on this engine. With a little timing work they got over 700 HP @ 5800, and 711 FT/LBS @ 4500.
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I stopped by GM Perf. Parts trailer at the Charlotte Goodguys show last weekend and the rep showed me pricing of $7,500 for shortblock and $9,800 for longblock. He was not sure about availability though.
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These motors sound great when you first think about it. But, after really looking into it, I don't feel it is the best for marine application. I think you can build a better one from scratch by yourself. First, I have not been able to find anyone who knows the exact cam specs, so I will consider that it most likely will not work in a boat. Next, the valves are not Inconel, so you would most likely want to change them. It's a tall deck block, so if you already have aftermarket exhaust, your risers or headers won't line up with your tips. Of course, this is assuming that we are talking about a long block.
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Looks Cool!!
But I am also of the opinion that you could build bigger HP for that kind of $$. |
i just had a merlin marine 555ci built and dynoed.merlin 3 block,merlin jenkins heads with a little bowl work,225 severe duty ss intake valves 188 inconel exhust valves,callies dragon slayer crank,je pistons,manly billit I beam rods,hyd roller cam,crane rockers,arp head and main studs,merlin marine 4500 intake,gary williams prepped 1050 marine dominator,ati super dampner balancer,moroso pan,msd distributer and wires,complete motor inc dyno made 704hp@5800 and over [email protected] $10.500 price was 10.000 with eagle h beam rods i upgraded to the billit manlys for 500 more.
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sleeker,
where did you get your motor built at or did you do it. ? are they a package or is that what you had built "custom". i'm ready to do something with my boat. could you email me specs ? and prices ? [email protected] thanks Don |
Sleeker, I would also be interested
in that combination if it could be purchased in that price range. Greg |
Just as Sleeker mentioned-- I built my 588's everything brand new for $12000, incl dyno testing (no exhaust) they made 704 hp @5600, and 698 tq max @4800. I think with a little more tweaking we'll see another 25 hp.
Oh and the torque was 655@3300rpm --pretty flat! |
This engine has a lot of attention (ZZ572/620hp -Deluxe); I am also looking to obtain one at dealer cost.
I would love to find the facts on any marine conversion issues. The cam? --- O.K. as is or Not? I'm in fresh H20 so the aluminum corrosion issue is not a problem for me. I heard these engines were delayed again?.... Joe |
Yes, they have been delayed again.
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Can I hear an Amen!
Availability Update ZZ572/620: These are available now! Since the pictures that GM supplied us with are no longer valid, we have taken some pictures of the first engine received and put new pictures up. P/N 12499190, Short-Block - $7,500.00 P/N 12498792, Base Engine - $11,500.00 P/N 12498793, Premium Engine - $12,995.00 http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Sneak/Previews.html 572 C.I.D. - 9.6:1 Compression Crate Engine Technical Information Horsepower 620 @ 5500 RPM Torque 650 Ft. Lbs. @ 4500 RPM Max. Recommended RPM 6000 RPM Compression Ratio 9.6:1 Block New! Sportsman Tall Deck Bow Tie Gen VI, 10.200 Deck Height Bore 4.560 Stroke 4.375 Crankshaft Forged 4340 steel Connecting Rods Forged 4340 steel, H-beam style, Shot peened Pistons Forged Aluminum, Full Floating Wrist Pin Piston Rings Plasma-moly rings Camshaft Hydraulic roller (Valve lift: .632 I, .632 E; Duration @ .050 254° I, 264° E) Lifters Hydraulic roller tappet Cylinder Heads Aluminum rectangular port, 118cc combustion chamber Intake Valves 2.25 Stainless steel Exhaust Valves 1.88 Stainless steel Valve Springs Dual valve springs, 1.564 coil dia., 1.800 installed height, 197 Lbs. seat pressure Spring Retainers Hardened chromemoly steel Rocker Arms Aluminum roller rockers, 1.7:1 ratio Push Rods High performance one piece Intake Manifold New! Aluminum tall deck single plane, 4150 series carburetor. Carburetor 850cfm, mechanical secondary Rear Main Seal New! One-piece design Windage Tray New! Screened and louvered Damper High RPM torsional damper Distributor H.E.I. Ignition Timing 36° total advance Spark Plugs R42XLS Fuel 92 Octane http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Chev...es/572c620.jpghttp://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Chev...es/572B620.jpg |
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Also this is right behind:
ZZ572/720R DESCRIPTION The new ZZ572/720R was engineered by GM Performance Parts and GM Racing exclusively for sportsman racers. The ZZ572/720R is built around an all-new Gen VI tall deck Bow Tie cylinder block. This all new race block is filled with a forged 4340 steel crankshaft with 4.375 stroke, shot peened forged 4340 H-beam rods, and forged aluminum pistons with full floating wrist pins. Plasma-moly rings are standard as is the screened and louvered windage tray. GMs first purpose built drag race engine is filled with hard core race parts for hard core performance and long term durability. The redesigned rectangular port aluminum cylinder heads result in a race gas only 12:1 compression ratio. A solid roller cam with 0.714 inch lift actuates the stainless steel valves. And, of course, hardened chromemoly retainers, roller rocker arms, and dual valve springs are used to complete the valvetrain. A new GM tall deck single plane intake manifold and 1095 CFM King Demon carburetor deliver enough air and fuel to make the 720 horsepower at 6,200 RPM and 685 ft. lbs. of torque at 4,500 RPM. Ignition is handled by multiple spark discharge ignition. An SFI approved torsional damper is installed at the factory. Out of the crate and into your race car - it just that simple. Race gas fueled, high revving horsepower, all from GM, the ZZ572/720R is the engine that will get you down the track consistently, pass after pass, season after season. All we can say is its the stupendous! Not only is it a dream big-block engine but the R in ZZ572/720R stands for Race and race it will, thats for certain. Finally released by GM but gone is the bright red paint and Chevy Bow Tie logo on the valve covers. In are traditional Chevy orange paint and 572 on the valve covers. 12498825 Short-Block 12498826 Base Engine (Long-Block) 12498827 Premium Engine 572 C.I.D. - 12:1 Compression Crate Engine Technical Information Horsepower 720 @ 6250 RPM Torque 685 Ft. Lbs. @ 4500 RPM Max. Recommended RPM 6750 RPM Compression Ratio 12:1 Block New! Sportsman Tall Deck Bow Tie Gen VI, 10.200 Deck Height Bore 4.560 Stroke 4.375 Crankshaft Forged 4340 steel Connecting Rods Forged 4340 steel, H-beam style, Shot peened Pistons Forged Aluminum, Full Floating Wrist Pin Piston Rings Plasma-moly rings Camshaft Mechanical roller (Valve lift: .714 I, .714 E; Duration @ .050 266° I, 274° E) Lifters Mechanical roller tappet Cylinder Heads Aluminum rectangular port, 118cc combustion chamber Intake Valves 2.25 Stainless steel Exhaust Valves 1.88 Stainless steel Valve Springs Dual valve springs, 1.567 coil dia., 2.050 installed height, 230 Lbs. seat pressure Spring Retainers Hardened chromemoly steel Rocker Arms Aluminum roller rockers, 1.7:1 ratio Push Rods High performance one piece Intake Manifold New! Aluminum tall deck single plane, 4500 series carburetor. Carburetor 1095cfm, mechanical secondary Rear Main Seal New! One-piece design Windage Tray New! Screened and louvered Damper High RPM torsional damper Distributor Multiple spark discharge Ignition Timing 36° total advance Spark Plugs R42XLS Fuel Race fuel http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Chev...ckV8s/572.html |
MOJO-13 Does this mean the stickers are going on also?
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If you get one of these bad boys and want to use it for your boat your going to have to reclearence all of the internals.
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What about buying the short block with the hydraulic roller cam and using aftermarket aluminum heads with big combustion chambers? I think Dart sells heads with 140cc chambers which would make about 8.5:1 CR on a 572. Can you say 1000 HP blower motor?
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You can say it, but It will say kaboom back.
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Why are marine engine clearances different? Sounds like a new tech thread. Go for it Back4More, this subject needs a thorough thrashing.
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In the Marine environment...
Blocks run colder and pistons run hotter....and with a blower on top even hotter.
More clearance between piston and cylinder...ring ends get more clearance too Blower pistons are a must with that much power expected out of it...and a high quality set of rings too. More clearance in the rod bearings for oil flow to remove heat from the bearings. Re balancing the rotating assy...If its anything like the ZZ502 it will rattle it's self to death in no time. If your looking for a 1000hp blower motor you better plunk down the cash for top of the line internals...not to mention a beefy aftermarket block...There is no such thing as a cheap marine blower motor making 700+hp. I not slamming this bad assed crate motor, but it is not for powerboats...I read alot about people blowing up the 502s running them at the track. I know nothing about detailed marine engine building but learned a bit while having mine built. Oh, and we did'nt even talk cams and valve train yet.... |
Wow, I guess I kicked this thread in the balls.:(
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Originally posted by Too Old Nah....but you busted some baloons.:D |
Re: In the Marine environment...
Originally posted by Back4More Blocks run colder and pistons run hotter....and with a blower on top even hotter. More clearance between piston and cylinder...ring ends get more clearance too Blower pistons are a must with that much power expected out of it...and a high quality set of rings too. More clearance in the rod bearings for oil flow to remove heat from the bearings. Re balancing the rotating assy...If its anything like the ZZ502 it will rattle it's self to death in no time. If your looking for a 1000hp blower motor you better plunk down the cash for top of the line internals...not to mention a beefy aftermarket block...There is no such thing as a cheap marine blower motor making 700+hp. I not slamming this bad assed crate motor, but it is not for powerboats...I read alot about people blowing up the 502s running them at the track. I know nothing about detailed marine engine building but learned a bit while having mine built. Oh, and we did'nt even talk cams and valve train yet.... Might also explain why world castings got out of the marine crate engine business if they did not modify their crate packages enough. Thanks for the slap back to reality! :D:D |
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