Help**The Head Bolt Heads are rusted OFF
 

The exhaust and head bolt heads are gone:eek:This is a 1997 28 ft Scarab with about 500 hrs fresh water .From all the rust it looks like it sank with the Titanic. I am rebuilding this motor for my friend and I know the exhaust is garbage . Allready talked him into some aftermarket performance exhaust.

I have never seen one this BADD on the out side . :eek:

My Question is how do you recommend to get the bolts out so I can take the motor apart?On the exhaust I know I can use a cutting torch because were not reusing the manifolds. But the head bolts some of the heads are gone.With the out side being this bad I wonder if the block and heads are rusted out.He is a good friend so its going to be a freebie.But if the block and heads are too rusted in the water passages he might as well buy a create motor.

Some of the Head bolts are the same as the exhaust bolts.I dont why he let it get this bad.

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That is ugly Strip Poker. I would torch them all off, just be careful of the fuel. Also you could weld nuts to the head bolt as another option. What engine is this? It is amazing this is rusted that bad when used in fresh water, whats up with that?

Dave

Drill the heads off, die grinder and air chisel. Hard work, think i'd go long block. This things really rusted up.

I've never saw a fresh water boat with that kind of corrosion...NEVER.

If you can just grind off the tops of the bolt heads and try to break the heads loose.

As others said it may not be worth your time.

I've had this before, and i was able to find a metric socket that i could pound on the bolt in order to remove them. Otherwise the drill/grind plan is about it.

You really sure it was fresh water? That's really BADD.
Must never have winterized it and WD40'd it properly:confused:
That's worse than most 10 year old salt water boats I've seen.
I'd keep a crate motor option open if I were you:rolleyes:

He bought the boat new in 1997. its a 415 hp MPI.Its only been to the coast (Salt Water) maybe 5 times just for vacations.and I carried my Scarab also when we went . I guess he never washed it or flushed it after those trips to the salt. He told me he did??He did winterize every winter because I made him do it ,He just drained the water. I know he never put wd40 on it.He does not believe in preventive maintenance .

I don't think I can weld any think to some of the bolts. There is a few that the head is totally gone . i haven't even scraped any rust off and its that bad .the motor mounts are even in bad shape. One freeze plug looks like its made of metal its so bad.Its looks like the risers have been leaking and running down the manifold rusting and between the head and manifold leaking there also.
I think we might be able to torch off the bolts on the manifolds because it doesn't matter if we hurt them. But the head are going to be tough. if I could burn off whats left of the head of the bolt . if i hurt the head i guess i could spot face them Like when you angle mill the heads for compression??

use dremel cut off hweel to cuseth heads of eth bolts off easier than screwwing around with a torch.

as fo rethhead bolts sears has these bolt remover thing that work pretty well. They look liek normal impact sockets except they have helical groove cut in them. YOu pund em on and then use a wrench or and impact gun on reverse. It digs into eth head and works relaly well. you need a vise to remove eth bolt form eth bolt out socket once you remove it. YOu coudl try it on the exhaust too.

also if its supposed to be a 15mm head use a 14 or 13mm socket pound it on witha hammer and get cranking. EItehr get inpact bits or a bunch of normla one cus the normal ones will crack sooner or later.

and taht engine loosk damn ugly. He shodul bethinking long block anywa and sell that on ebay as is for $500...

WOW!! FUBAR!!!!!

A torch will not cut the cast iron. It just melts it. I say junk the heads. They're proably bad anyways. Why spend all that effort for a set of heads you can find used cheap?

I had this problem (not as bad) and I was able to air chisel the bolt heads off and pull the manifold off over the bolts. Forget about turning those with any socket. They will just crumble. After I got my manifolds off I was able to remove what was left of the bolts by hand. You should be able to remove head bolts by hand once you break the heads off of them as well. My heads were in pretty good shape though and I just reused them. I couldn't use a torch on mine because my 22' Scarab had carpeting in the engine compartment. I think that thing has been in salt water for sure. You can see where the riser has leaked on the outside so I just wonder if it is just as bad on the inside. Remove the risers and take some pics for us.

Roby

Keep us informed with pictures of more damage that you may find. I'm interested in your project.

Roby

I will take more picts.as soon as(if) we get the heads off:( :(

I would not want to chance rebuilding that engine. Who's to say how bad the internal walls are??? I have seen engine blocks that look better than that engine, that have rusted from the inside out!!:( Some serious electrolysis has been happening to that engine if it's been only in fresh water...
My 2c

If you need exhaust, I have both stock merc and eddie marine I'd let go for a good price. I might have a set of heads that would work. The parts are from various engines that I've put together over the past few years. All are in good shape. Let me know.

If it looks like that on the outside, I'd hate to think what it looks like inside.

Send it to a metal/machine shop and let them deal with it...

If the headbolts are brittle enough, pop the heads with an air chisel or a hammer and sharp chisel. The use the extractors as mentioned above. After you soak the crap out of it. Works for the old suspensions that we get into.

OH MY GOD! I've never seen that before. Seriously, what in the world coused that. I have a 22 year old fresh water boat that was not cared for my the previous owners. But you can still eat off the engine.

Brian

I have only run my boats in salt water and have never seen that kind of damage before. I may be anal about keeping things clean on my own. I have never even seen this on other peoples motors that don't maintain them at all. I think that there will alot of damage inside that motor when and if you get it apart.

i've seen that happen in salt. Takes several years though.

Go to Sears and buy the new "Bolt Outs"!!! They are a tapered style socket with spiral sights that will dig into the head bolt the tighter you turn it. They come in impact sets also. Would also recommend using a flat blade punch on a air chisel to try and jar it prior to using the Bolt Out.

Jim

I would soak it then go for the Torch if you are good with one. Do not use a HUGE tip but a small one. That way you will only cut the bolt head. You never know with motors it could look mint in there it cound be a total hunk of chit. I would first take off the exhaust sot that you can take a look at the exhaust ports and see how bad it looks in there and then you can make up your mind if the heads are worth saving. Then SMACK YOUR FRIEND FOR LETTING IT GO LIKE THAT!!!!! :D

Jon

I would take off the water pump to see what it looks like in the passages, then if it needs to be scrapped (pretty likely with that poor maintenance) you won't have gone through all the work to take the whole motor apart. Paying for a new motor might be a good lesson on maintenance. Of course that only works 50% of the time with my customers.

Good Luck Rob!

Bolt Outs-

Here is what you need.
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...id=00952160000

Jim

I just want to know what puder is trying to say??? :cool:

That looks pretty bad...a crate motor may be in store for you!!

I just happened to be looking through a Northern Hydraulics catalog and saw some tools just for this. Page 49, Irwin Hanson bolt extractors.

WOW! my 95 that see's salt 75+ % of the time dont even look nearly that bad. Kind a makes you wonder how the head gasket does not let go from loseing its torque? Rag's

STRIP any up dates yet? did you get it all apart? what did the rest look like? Rag's

Worst case senario..... you will have to find a shop that does EDM removal.... I've had broken off studs removed. .....but it isn't cheap... usually $45.00 per bolt..... but it works like magic..

Here's what I did in a similar situation
 

Here is a post that I did back when one head bolt was left when I removed my heads...

QUOTE]Originally posted by ljsmith1
Well...I took the suggestion of the Craftsman Bolt-Out sockets, and I went out and purchased the impact set for $49.99. Following the set's instructions, I placed the smallest socket that would fit over the rusted head. I then applied the impact wrench to it with about 600 lb-ft of reverse force...and...zzzzziiiiipp...the Bolt-out socket flutes stripped away, and the head bolt remained firmly in place (albeit a little more chewed up). Another socket that was a little bigger - same thing.

I then tried the hammer-on standard socket approach. All I got was two split sockets and a sliced knuckle. I tried the propane torch, hammer & chisel...still stubbornly the bolt remained. Hmm...maybe the head bolt is hardened - duhhh...

It was starting more and more to look like I was going to have to drag out the Oxy-Acetylene torch and risk blowing myself up...until I got a brainstorm...D-R-E-M-E-L. Could it work? Would it have the balls to beat this thing? Would I need MORE POWER!?

Well, I started with the reinforced 1" diameter cutting wheels and I proceeded to delicately dice the top of the bolt head-just like on TV. Pie piece after pie piece, sparks and more sparks. Then, I took the cold chisel and baby sledge and proceeded to bust up the head into little itty bits. Wouldn't you know it? In about 1/2 hr and very little sweat, I was finally able to remove the bolt. And I didn't even blow myself up!

And presto! the cylinder head is now separated off the engine. Sure enough, the head gasket shows the tale of a nearby water passage seal letting go and right into cylinder #5.

What a great forum this is to get ideas! I appreciate the help that everyone gave me.

Regards,

-Larry

Hmmm...cappuchino? My wife might like this flavor.....

PS- I will post a picture of the bastard bolt as soon as I get a chance. I think I will frame it... [/QUOTE]

Let me tell you...that little tool saved my day..month..and year! It will take you a little while, but at least you will not blow up in the meantime!

Good Luck!

-Larry

I don't think it will need a edm .how many people know what it is????:D :D i got all but one each on each head out there is a enough to use the craftsman toll on but i am dealing with mr elcheapoo. i have a cut off tool i will try? i am taking pictures as i go

I took of the oil pan ,nothing in the bottom of the pan ,very clean not even any residue.

took off the intake . clean
This motor in going to be a good one . I think the exhaust were leaking and he just keep on going:( reason for th erustt there was so much belt dust on the front of the motor it looked like a motor in a car at 100K mile with no gunking.Bad .Some people are not worthy on owning a high per boat :eek:

He would have been a good test junkie for the 500 efi 's. WFO is a under statement no consecpetion what happends when its out of the watter at WFO.He NEVER lets out.over 500 hours.

EDM, hmmmm. Electrical Discharge Machine. Just a guess. Gotta love Japax. ;) :D :D But then my expertise is with the traveling wire EDM's more so than the RAM EDM's.

I got some blow flakes I wired out a few yrs ago, but might be better suited for the uncensored section. :)

A good torch guy can have those bolt heads off in 30 seconds each. If you arent a good torch guy then take it to one. That's not a good application to "learn"on.

Won't hurt the heads (if a good torch guy does it).

I'd charge you $20 to cut all the heads off if I could get to them without having to lay in a pretzel or something.

Call around and find a good torch guy.

Centerpunch the bolt, drill the head off with a 1/2" drill bit then lift head up off studs. Now wasn't that simple enough? :)

US1, it's almost impossible to drill hardened head bolts. You would have better luck grinding or using a torch.