Merc 496 HO -- trouble with new technology
01-29-2002, 06:50 PM
#1
Merc 496 HO -- trouble with new technology
I agreed to purchase a 2002 Powerquest 340 Vyper performance boat November 2001 with anticipated delivery January 2002. During my boats construction I had to opportunity to work closely with and visit the factory several times to customize my boat to my personal desires. Particularly instrumental in helping me obtain satisfaction during the building process were Mandi Brower and Mark Winia of Powerquest. Not only did they walk me through the process and explain every nuance, they also worked diligently to ensure that my boat was constructed with only the highest standards of quality possible.
Despite the best efforts of the Powerquest team, there were demons lurking in the background thanks to the fragmented nature of the boat manufacturing industry. After an excitement filled day on January 5th, when the boat found its way to me, I had to opportunity to carefully scrutinize every detail of the boat before its first run in the water the following week. Why not run it on delivery day you ask. Poor weather conspired against me and I was unable to run the boat the weekend it was delivered. That’s a mistake that I will not make again as you will understand in a moment.
The following weekend provided me with a opportunity to take my boat on its first in water run since being built. I naturally jumped at the chance. What I found from here on surprised me and taught me the “hard knocks” of new boat buying.
First thing that I found was that there was absolutely no gas put in by the dealer to ensure that the boat, which is rack stored inside and they knew that, could get to the gas dock at my marina. I did not expect them to “fill it up” although that would have been nice considering that my purchase was for a $200k+ MSRP product but, I did expect them to put enough gas in to get me to a dock! Ducky's was the dealer out of Middletown, PA and would HIGHLY recommend that anyone consider other dealers as possible options.
Second, after getting gas, I started the starboard engine and I got a continuous intermittent alarm indicating there was something wrong with that engine. I had already completed a fluids check prior to starting either engine and was 99.99% sure that everything was full according the Mercruiser specs. Naturally I shut down engine and started to diagnose what could be causing the alarm. After thorough inspection I found several alarming issues. Most of the hose clamps on both engines were loose (some actually leaked). After tightening those up I found the true culprit of the alarm. The drive oil reservoir sensor on the starboard engine was bad as proved by unplugging it and running the engine with no further problems. One would think that this type of defect would be found either at the Mercruiser factory or at least at the boat manufacturer or dealer! New part on order…
Third, after successfully tightening all leaking hoses and getting both engines started and running, I took the boat down the river to the bay to “open it up” and test her out. Everything was going great with the 30 minute ride at idle down the river. Everyone knows that proud moment that there is when you take out a few people on your new boat and you get to bring her up on plane… well not me. In fact it was an extremely embarrassing one with my experience. As I started out of the hole slowly bringing both engines up to speed, the port engine suddenly failed around 3000 RPM. I slowed to idle and tried to restart the port engine as anyone would. Unfortunately, that was not going to happen. After analyzing the wires, plugs, fuel system and several attempts at restarting, I was forced to limp back to port with one engine. Extremely disgusted, embarrassed and angry I tried to look through all of that to find a solution. The next morning I replaced the fuel filter thinking it may be a fuel problem. Mercruiser must have used 1000 ft/lbs of torque to put the filter on because it was possibly the hardest thing that I have ever had to remove from an engine. They leave clamps loose and over tighten filters. What is up with that?
I tried again to run but the exact same results occurred. Now I was getting really frustrated! I even paid, out of my own pocket, a Mercruiser Master Mechanic to come down on a Sunday to help me diagnose the problem. He basically was left guessing but thought that it might be electrical and he would check it out the following week. As it turns out he needed to order the special adapter for his computer reader since the new 496 MAG HO engines are so different than its predecessors. Why doesn’t Mercruiser mandate this or provide them??? When it finally came in the next week and after plugging it in to read the computer, no items were listed as “out of conformance”. Funny, I thought these new SmartCraft engines were supposed to be able to diagnose problems more like today’s cars do. I guess not! What he did find through a network of other mechanics who have worked on the 496 engine was a problem with the wiring harness for the fuel system. Basically it amounted to a creased wire that was breaking contact. He fixed that problem after several days of searching and we aimed to test it all over again. As you may have guessed, the results were the same. Still no resolution and Mercruiser had no clue as to what the problem could be. One additional item, when the warranty history for my engines was pulled we found that the engine that is having all of the problems was actually having problems before it ever left the factory! In fact, a sensor called the Crank Position Sensor was replaced for some mysterious reason.
The next day (yet another sunny beautiful day that I could not use my boat) I attempted to swap main computers to see if that would solve the problem thinking that maybe the computer was bad. Nope, that did nothing. As it stands know, I alone spent the better part of 4 days trying all of the “simple” things like loose connectors and wires, bad connections, faulty relays, and bad computers that might cause problems. Still nothing was resolving the issue. Again I even had the mechanic down to take a look at it and he was baffled.
The following Monday I spent some time with the mechanic at the shop while he was trying to diagnose my problem. What he found is that there MAY be a relation to the original part that was replaced by Mercruiser. The thought is that the sensor is either still bad or that the wiring is bad for that sensor. The funny thing is that this sensor is critical to its operation, since it determines the timing adjustment for the whole engine. In fact, it now makes sense when trying to restart the engine that it occasionally backfires and that the exhaust leaves a black residue like it is burning rich on the fuel mixture. He is busy chasing that down and hopefully after 24 days of “out of service” time as of right now we will have the issue resolved.
The purpose of my long winded story was to point out several things. First, and I can not say this with enough zeal, NEVER EVER buy a boat (new or used) with out first sea-trailing it before you plop down the check! I made this mistake assuming (and we all know what happens when you do that) that a “NEW” boat would not have these types of issues. I also found out, very quickly I might add, that the service industry within the marine sector is so poorly organized that it is amazing that people buy boats. If any of you have ever had to deal with the service department of your dealer you know what I mean. Second, something must be done to drive the “big dog on the block” to improve. There is clearly very little opposition to Mercruiser in the performance engine arena and as such, they hold us consumers over a barrel. My only recourse besides begging is to invoke the Magnusson-Moss Act, more commonly known as the “lemon laws”, to help my case. As it stands now, I clearly have a building case for which to invoke this although I would like to be able to rely on the boat manufacturer. I still have a HUGE lump in my throat having spent this much money on a “toy” and not being able to use it or even get the level of attention that I feel is appropriate from any resource to help me resolve the issue. The industry today manages problems like these by pointing the finger and saying “that is a Mercruiser or a so and so problem” instead of dealing with the customer regardless of who made the components. In my humble opinion, I compare this type of thinking to buying a new car and having a problem with your brakes. Is the consumer responsible to find out who the manufacturer of the brakes are and TRY and get some service from them or are they supposed to rely on the vehicle manufacturer to resolve the problem via the dealer/manufacturer? Cleary the latter is the method that is used in the automotive industry today. Why are today’s boat builders so different? What will it take to drive them to improve? Didn’t the automotive companies once act in this manner?
If anyone knows how to help me resolve these issues please let me know.
Despite the best efforts of the Powerquest team, there were demons lurking in the background thanks to the fragmented nature of the boat manufacturing industry. After an excitement filled day on January 5th, when the boat found its way to me, I had to opportunity to carefully scrutinize every detail of the boat before its first run in the water the following week. Why not run it on delivery day you ask. Poor weather conspired against me and I was unable to run the boat the weekend it was delivered. That’s a mistake that I will not make again as you will understand in a moment.
The following weekend provided me with a opportunity to take my boat on its first in water run since being built. I naturally jumped at the chance. What I found from here on surprised me and taught me the “hard knocks” of new boat buying.
First thing that I found was that there was absolutely no gas put in by the dealer to ensure that the boat, which is rack stored inside and they knew that, could get to the gas dock at my marina. I did not expect them to “fill it up” although that would have been nice considering that my purchase was for a $200k+ MSRP product but, I did expect them to put enough gas in to get me to a dock! Ducky's was the dealer out of Middletown, PA and would HIGHLY recommend that anyone consider other dealers as possible options.
Second, after getting gas, I started the starboard engine and I got a continuous intermittent alarm indicating there was something wrong with that engine. I had already completed a fluids check prior to starting either engine and was 99.99% sure that everything was full according the Mercruiser specs. Naturally I shut down engine and started to diagnose what could be causing the alarm. After thorough inspection I found several alarming issues. Most of the hose clamps on both engines were loose (some actually leaked). After tightening those up I found the true culprit of the alarm. The drive oil reservoir sensor on the starboard engine was bad as proved by unplugging it and running the engine with no further problems. One would think that this type of defect would be found either at the Mercruiser factory or at least at the boat manufacturer or dealer! New part on order…
Third, after successfully tightening all leaking hoses and getting both engines started and running, I took the boat down the river to the bay to “open it up” and test her out. Everything was going great with the 30 minute ride at idle down the river. Everyone knows that proud moment that there is when you take out a few people on your new boat and you get to bring her up on plane… well not me. In fact it was an extremely embarrassing one with my experience. As I started out of the hole slowly bringing both engines up to speed, the port engine suddenly failed around 3000 RPM. I slowed to idle and tried to restart the port engine as anyone would. Unfortunately, that was not going to happen. After analyzing the wires, plugs, fuel system and several attempts at restarting, I was forced to limp back to port with one engine. Extremely disgusted, embarrassed and angry I tried to look through all of that to find a solution. The next morning I replaced the fuel filter thinking it may be a fuel problem. Mercruiser must have used 1000 ft/lbs of torque to put the filter on because it was possibly the hardest thing that I have ever had to remove from an engine. They leave clamps loose and over tighten filters. What is up with that?
I tried again to run but the exact same results occurred. Now I was getting really frustrated! I even paid, out of my own pocket, a Mercruiser Master Mechanic to come down on a Sunday to help me diagnose the problem. He basically was left guessing but thought that it might be electrical and he would check it out the following week. As it turns out he needed to order the special adapter for his computer reader since the new 496 MAG HO engines are so different than its predecessors. Why doesn’t Mercruiser mandate this or provide them??? When it finally came in the next week and after plugging it in to read the computer, no items were listed as “out of conformance”. Funny, I thought these new SmartCraft engines were supposed to be able to diagnose problems more like today’s cars do. I guess not! What he did find through a network of other mechanics who have worked on the 496 engine was a problem with the wiring harness for the fuel system. Basically it amounted to a creased wire that was breaking contact. He fixed that problem after several days of searching and we aimed to test it all over again. As you may have guessed, the results were the same. Still no resolution and Mercruiser had no clue as to what the problem could be. One additional item, when the warranty history for my engines was pulled we found that the engine that is having all of the problems was actually having problems before it ever left the factory! In fact, a sensor called the Crank Position Sensor was replaced for some mysterious reason.
The next day (yet another sunny beautiful day that I could not use my boat) I attempted to swap main computers to see if that would solve the problem thinking that maybe the computer was bad. Nope, that did nothing. As it stands know, I alone spent the better part of 4 days trying all of the “simple” things like loose connectors and wires, bad connections, faulty relays, and bad computers that might cause problems. Still nothing was resolving the issue. Again I even had the mechanic down to take a look at it and he was baffled.
The following Monday I spent some time with the mechanic at the shop while he was trying to diagnose my problem. What he found is that there MAY be a relation to the original part that was replaced by Mercruiser. The thought is that the sensor is either still bad or that the wiring is bad for that sensor. The funny thing is that this sensor is critical to its operation, since it determines the timing adjustment for the whole engine. In fact, it now makes sense when trying to restart the engine that it occasionally backfires and that the exhaust leaves a black residue like it is burning rich on the fuel mixture. He is busy chasing that down and hopefully after 24 days of “out of service” time as of right now we will have the issue resolved.
The purpose of my long winded story was to point out several things. First, and I can not say this with enough zeal, NEVER EVER buy a boat (new or used) with out first sea-trailing it before you plop down the check! I made this mistake assuming (and we all know what happens when you do that) that a “NEW” boat would not have these types of issues. I also found out, very quickly I might add, that the service industry within the marine sector is so poorly organized that it is amazing that people buy boats. If any of you have ever had to deal with the service department of your dealer you know what I mean. Second, something must be done to drive the “big dog on the block” to improve. There is clearly very little opposition to Mercruiser in the performance engine arena and as such, they hold us consumers over a barrel. My only recourse besides begging is to invoke the Magnusson-Moss Act, more commonly known as the “lemon laws”, to help my case. As it stands now, I clearly have a building case for which to invoke this although I would like to be able to rely on the boat manufacturer. I still have a HUGE lump in my throat having spent this much money on a “toy” and not being able to use it or even get the level of attention that I feel is appropriate from any resource to help me resolve the issue. The industry today manages problems like these by pointing the finger and saying “that is a Mercruiser or a so and so problem” instead of dealing with the customer regardless of who made the components. In my humble opinion, I compare this type of thinking to buying a new car and having a problem with your brakes. Is the consumer responsible to find out who the manufacturer of the brakes are and TRY and get some service from them or are they supposed to rely on the vehicle manufacturer to resolve the problem via the dealer/manufacturer? Cleary the latter is the method that is used in the automotive industry today. Why are today’s boat builders so different? What will it take to drive them to improve? Didn’t the automotive companies once act in this manner?
If anyone knows how to help me resolve these issues please let me know.
01-29-2002, 07:25 PM
#2
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Where is the dealer or salesman thru all of this?? Is the shop where you have the boat at the one that sold it to you? Sounds like the dealer was not even planing to take you out & make ready failed, with no fuel in it.
Since you have been waiting so long & they can not get it running why no ask them to put a new motor in boat. I would even call powerquest or Mercruiser youself if dealer give you story you do not agree with.
I bought my first new eliminator boat last year. Of course the day I go to pick up & put it in the water it is foggy & can not see 10' out over the water. When I got to dealer he had motor running on hose. I pulled home & waited till the weekend to take out. I'm glad I did not have any problems like yours. I could not have handled it since my toy box burned down(up) the day before I was to pick up the boat. I did have so problems but eliminator & the dealer jumped thru hoops to correct the problems & make me happy.
Keep us posted
Since you have been waiting so long & they can not get it running why no ask them to put a new motor in boat. I would even call powerquest or Mercruiser youself if dealer give you story you do not agree with.
I bought my first new eliminator boat last year. Of course the day I go to pick up & put it in the water it is foggy & can not see 10' out over the water. When I got to dealer he had motor running on hose. I pulled home & waited till the weekend to take out. I'm glad I did not have any problems like yours. I could not have handled it since my toy box burned down(up) the day before I was to pick up the boat. I did have so problems but eliminator & the dealer jumped thru hoops to correct the problems & make me happy.
Keep us posted
01-29-2002, 07:33 PM
#3
Registered
My 28 Powerquest was delivered in November,I hope I don't have any of the problems you are having. The only thing I did was look the boat over a little and no sea trial!! It has been sitting in the rack waiting for spring.I would think that if the dealer is no help that Powerquest would do everything they could to help you.Good luck, maby a letter to Mercruiser would help!!!
01-29-2002, 07:37 PM
#4
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WOW............. 
It is too bad things have to get this out of hand. Loose clamps? Whats up with that? Not that PQ is so busy that they cant rig a boat correctly. I once had a brand new bayliner (yes I know) I went on a sea (Lake) trial with the dealer and all performed perfect. The net day I had all the family on the boat and crank crank crank it would not start. It ended up being an ignition wire that got cut in the flywheel (outboard) and just would not go. A simple problem that got fixed. After that I NEVER had another problem Hopefully you will get yours fixed and you will have the same outcome. - Stay on them they OWE you a boat the works!
It is too bad things have to get this out of hand. Loose clamps? Whats up with that? Not that PQ is so busy that they cant rig a boat correctly. I once had a brand new bayliner (yes I know) I went on a sea (Lake) trial with the dealer and all performed perfect. The net day I had all the family on the boat and crank crank crank it would not start. It ended up being an ignition wire that got cut in the flywheel (outboard) and just would not go. A simple problem that got fixed. After that I NEVER had another problem Hopefully you will get yours fixed and you will have the same outcome. - Stay on them they OWE you a boat the works!
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Ray
Ray
01-29-2002, 07:38 PM
#5
They are NO help and "too busy" with boats shows to deal with this. I guess that shows you where their priorities are.
Moral of the story: pick your dealer carefully (and avoid the southern PA PQ dealer).
Moral of the story: pick your dealer carefully (and avoid the southern PA PQ dealer).
01-29-2002, 07:55 PM
#6
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Posts: n/a
What kind of dealer would not take you out and instruct you on the boat operation? Are they that far from water? All those issues would have been discovered, that is called a "DELIVERY CHECKLIST". Even Merc has one that's supposed to be gone over with the buyer. I would think most dealers go over the boat prior to delivery for their customers. Its one of the reasons we all don't get to buy at "Dealer Cost" right?
Keep your chin up, some of us delt with pushrods/fuel rail fittings etc. But when its right, it'll take 24 hrs to wipe the grin off your face
Keep your chin up, some of us delt with pushrods/fuel rail fittings etc. But when its right, it'll take 24 hrs to wipe the grin off your face
01-29-2002, 08:00 PM
#7
Registered
Our first purchase was a five year old boat. After the test drive with the salesman we came to a price agreement. While we arranged for a loan the dealership detailed the boat. After we signed the papers the service manager took us for a ride and showed us EVERY feature on the boat. He made a list of everything that did not work correctly (stereo, depth finder, trim switch) and replaced them. Over the course of one month I took the boat in for minor problems and everything was taken care of. That's dealer service! (National Marine - Peoria, IL).
[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Frequency ]
[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Frequency ]
01-29-2002, 08:07 PM
#8
The dealer is about 5 hours away and the day they delivered was the "big" snow storm week here in the south. In fact, my boatel was supposed to be closed on delievery day but they made an exception for me. Unfortunately, I should have waited until the weather was more cooperative so that this problem would have been discovered and fixed before I took delivery (or they would not have received the check for payment which I am sure would have motivated them).
That why, you won't have to wait to open her up and see what it will do!
01-29-2002, 08:23 PM
#10
BillR and I are friends and at the same boatel. I have been on his and driven it. All things being equal, I would rather drive mine for all of the reasons that you think plus mine looks better too!
