Falcon, would you mind explaining the motor off bleeding procedure?

Twin engine, both steering pumps are used with a propiterial (?) valve.
Fountain/ Lathem, full hyd. with reservoir.

I have the printout from Lathem, but it requires motors to be running and the bleeding is to be done at the rams. This would require it to be done on the trailer. The non running sounds just like what I need to do.

Thanks!

Part 1
I was going to get back sooner, but had to put my thoughts together on how to keep this simple. The twin pump setup doesn't really complicate what gets done too much, just how to explain it.
First off, I'm not sure you really have a "priority" valve. Merc and someone else did have them years ago, I'm not sure if anyone uses them any more. A priority valve tries to determine which of the 2 pumps is putting out more and that is the pump that gets routed to the helm. The other pump output just gets recirculated back directly to the return side, unless it's not running at all. The disadvantage to this is it doesn't help to have 2 pumps running to help idle steering conditions. It was really intended for the standard internal rams which don't need much flow and the shuttle valve on the ram can't handle much flow without adding a lot of backpressure in the system.
Most multiple pump systems just tee the outputs together with check valves on the output from each pump to keep oil from flowing backwards through a pump that isn't running. With more than one pump running you have more oil available to the helm. This setup does require a large port helm and large (usually #8) lines to and from the helm, at least on the supply circuit. Multiple pump systems also require a common reservoir, usually just hooked up to the tops of the standard reservoirs. This is because the return oil from the helm is T'd back to both cooler/reservoirs. If one pump is shut off, it will still push oil back to the reservoir of the pump not running.
I think that it is helpful to understand what's happening to help think throught the steps and also troubleshoot if you have a problem.
On to Part 2

Falcon, thanks so much! Getting printer ready!
I'm not sure about the priority valve. Just assumed that is what it was. The check valve sounds more like it. All I know is that there is a single valve block with lines from both pumps. Yes, reservoir is tee'd to both pump caps just like you said.

Part 2

I am assuming this system does have fluid in it, you just want to get out any remaining air you can. If it is a completely fresh, empty system, I would add a few steps that fully prefill both pump/supply circuit lines that I won't get into for now.

1) Disconnect the tiebar at one end. This will allow both cylinders to completely bottom.

2) Turn the wheel against the stbd lock. The stbd cylinder will be completely compressed and the port cylinder will be fully extended.

3) Remove a line from a cylinder connection closest to the piston on that cylinder (example, compressed cylinder, body mounting end). Cap the connection on that cylinder.

4) You have a choice here. I made up an extension line to connect to the open line and run it back into the reservoir. You don't lose any oil, except what is in the extension line, and you can see what is going on inside the boat. The other choice is to just catch what comes out the lines on the outside of the boat.

5) Turn the wheel in the opposite direction, watching the fluid level closely in the reservoir. You can stop, but keep turning the wheel in the same rotation until you feel you have purged any air from that line. This is where it's nice to have the extension line to do a more thorough job. With the oil just going back into the reservoir, you can keep turning the wheel until you are sure the air is removed from that line.

6) Reattach the line, trying not to let too much air enter the connection.

7) Repeat steps 3-6 for the other connection nearest the piston end of the other cylinder (example, extended cylinder, connection nearest the rod).

8) Turn the wheel to port lock. Repeat steps 3-7 for the other cylinder connections.

9) Reconnect the tiebar.

10) Important: During the next step, do not turn the wheel. If there is some trapped air in the pump/helm/return circuit it could get pushed in to the lines you just bled out!

11) Start only one engine, watching the reservoir level closely. Add fluid as required. You may want to let it run for a minute or two to purge air from the non running pump reservoir. Shut that engine off. Repeat for the other engine. Run both engines.

12) Now you can turn the wheel. Hopefully all is good!

It is possible to have a running engine when you need to turn the wheel, which helps with the effort required. What some boat builders do is prefill the lines using a pump and a large reservoir hooked in just like the engine pump(s). All of the lines can then be filled and tested, except the engine lines, cooler, and reservoir, which usually have fluid in them from the factory.

Thanks,

yep, has fluid. I had to remove a line last yr and thought it would self bleed under normal use. All summer long and it still sounded like the helm was aireating at full lock.

Don't worry if you have a priority valve or not. The procedure is really the same.

I did forget one thing. Check to see that the cylinders are still bottomed when going to do the 2nd line for each direction. When turning the wheel, the cylinder that is still hooked up may move. What you can do is remove both connections close to the piston right away, cap both cylinders and plug the extra line. Does that make sense? Putting this on paper isn't as easy as just showing someone!

Question.

When you turn to full lock as in #2, then remove the 1 line as in #3, then turn the wheel opposite direction to bleed as in #5, ........should the other drive move any since both of those lines on that ram are still hooked up?

Well how about that. You answered my question before I could type it out.

Nice Info

I have a dual ram system without the extra reservoir and have had no problems with it. Bleeding the system was easy although it is one of those jobs that requires friends

TTT

Falcon, are you still around?

I just bleed my steering per your instructions in pt 3 and have a couple of questions.

1st) When changing from port to starbord bleeding procedure, will I have a problem with air getting into the 2 lines just bled when drives are changing direction to bled the other 2 lines? Your last procedure requires the wheel not to be turned after all 4 lines are bleed until the motors are ran. How does this differ?

2nd) after all 4 lines are bled and drives are still turned to starbord lock, I understand it that they need to stay in that position until I can run the motors to purge any air out of the return circut?

3rd) when reinstalling the just bled line, I had the wife turn the wheel just a bit right before I tightend the fittings fully to purge any air that would have gotten into the line while disconnecting from the bleed line and back onto the ram fittting. Will there not be a bit of air that could still have been in the fitting itself on the ram?

4th)I can't get the tiebar to go in. The drives are spread just enough to prevent the tiebar bolts from entering. Should the drives be spongy after all 4 lines are bled? They appeared to be when I tried to pull them together to install the tiebar.

BTW, the only air I noticed is what got in while connecting the clear bleed line. (madeup line going into reservoir for continious bleeding.)

Thanks!