Whipple
 

Anyone installed a Whipple on their own? I'm considering doing it on an HP500EFI and am looking for input re: suggestions and potential problems.
Appreciate any info available.

It is very easy when you pull the engine out of the boat. Just tear the engine down to the heads and start the build up. Should take less than a day after the engine is out for the build up, another day to install boost, fuel pressure guages, rig the fuel pump and wire. Add one more if you go with stainless braided hoses on the fuel and water systems- highly recommended. If you are going to do poker runs, buy a heavy duty oil cooler. They are awsome systems, I highly recommend them.

Welcome to the board hotlavey!!!

I have installed a couple of the kits and here is couple of tips. The install is really strait forward, especially on the new kits. The instructions are good and the kit is very complete.
One thing it doesn't come with is the Fuel lines, but that is because the fuel pump gets mounted in different locations depending on the boat and the installer. You can measure and order them from whipple or just get them made at your local equipment supply store.
Now I'm not saying anyone can do it, because you have to be competent enough to change the intake manifold and I would strongly suggest that you change the head gaskets at the same time. And while you are at it, at least have the valves checked. HP500EFI's seem to have more issues with valve springs also, so changing them if they are not new, might be a good idea also.
If you are comfortable changing these items yourself, or you have a friend that is and he is helping, then go for it. You definitely want to take some plug readings the first few times out. They have the kit setup very good, but if you burn down the motor because you just run it and it is lean, it is your fault not Whipples. This is part of the install that every good mechanic will do when installing any kit of this type whether it is in the boat or on the dyno.

Rocky & John,

Thanks a ton for your quick responses on the Whipple install. I'm not sure I want to go to the trouble of yanking the engine and not sure why I would have to. In as much as all the work(except the fuel pump) is on top and my engine is very accessable(2750 Lavey) I think I should be able to do it in the boat.
My engine has 65 hours on it. Do you still feel the valve springs and head gaskets should be replaced? I have not run the engine super hard as the boat is only run at Parker on the Colorado River and Havasu. I did have Arizona Speed recalibrate the ECU and I installed a Mono-blade throttle body and the boat runs 81(5300 RPM) on GPS, but only did that a few times. It really has been babied the rest of the time.

I have not had problems with breaking springs, however I did have my engine blueprinted before I put mine together and paid to have Dustin fly out and dial it in with a high level air/fuel meter and a laptop. It idles and runs like stock.

John, when they blueprinted your engine did they change the springs? If so, what springs did they use? I knew the springs in the carburated HP were weak but I thought Mercury fixed that on the EFI.

hotlavey,

We've had Whipples on our 500 efi's for about 2 1/2 years now, virtually trouble free. We installed them while in the boat (Triple engine Black Thunder). As the other guys have mentioned, DO change headgaskets and have a fresh valve job completed. At that time they'll also check your valve springs. The cost is something to consider, but will insure you more trouble free hours. As to fuel lines, Braided SS are not Coast Guard approved unless wrapped in a CG approved material. The high pressure blue lines by Aeroquip or similar are CG approved and still look pretty sanitary.

Dustin, his Dad and Family are first class people and will stick with you to make the set up exactly what you want. As John mentioned, getting it programmed (ECU) right may require a visit by Dustin. Once completed you're good to go until you make a substantial change in the engine or gear ratio.

have a ball!

Steven, many thanks to you too for your info. What a great forum this is. Question, with only 65 hours on the engine is a head gasket change necessary? If so, is there a particular mfg. or is the Mercury set OK? Same question re: the valve springs. Will the Bravo XZ drive need any work? I really don't want to spend a fortune on a relatively new boat. Besides, my wife would probably cause me to have some of my parts replaced if I did.

Thanks again,

Tom McLean

You MUST REPLACE HEAD GSKTS. I didn't and learned the hard way. It cost me more in the end. Also get a valve job done and be sure to tell them that you are installing a blower. After they know this, they will cut the valves at a different angle to provide you with more durability for the long term.

If you do this mod you will love the power and acceleration. It is awesome !!!

I have installed many of these kits. Drop a line if you have any questions.

Dave

Dave, thanks to you for the info. I looked into the head gasket and valve job and found most everone agrees that it should be done. By the by, what engine oil do you recommend? I read an article by Teague and he stated that he would not use Synthetic oil in this engine as it causes problems with the cam rollers because it is too slick. He also said no multi-grade. Your opinion?

Thanks again,

Tom

Tom,

I recommend and use Castrol Racing straight 40 weight. They have a heavy duty oil, but it is not the same as Racing. You might need to special order it. I agree with the non synthetic thought. Boats run at fairly constant temps, unlike car engines.

I change it every 25 hours.

Dave

I am planning on adding a Whipple soon as well. From the research I have done and feedback I have seen, the link below seems to be the gasket of choice for blower motors..

http://www.cometic.com/

Dave,

Again, thanks for the info. Do you run your boat fairly hard? What is the max rpm for your setup? Which engine and drive do you have? I'm just trying to get a comparison between us. I'm running a 2750 Lavey with a tuned 26" Bravo 1. Max RPM's are 53-5400. GPS'd at 81. What can I expect after the install? Should I go to a 28 or 30 prop? I have a prop shop here that is very good and I really don't want to spend the bucks on a Lab. Maybe testing is the best route for the prop.

Checkmate,

Thanks for the web site, I'll check it out.
Keep me posted on your progress and pass on any good info and I''ll do the same.

Good Luck, Tom

I have an older boat with a carbed 454 Mag. It went 60 when it was stock and after the Whipple and fine tuning it goes 74 all day long. I do run it up but I never beat on it. I ALWAYS make sure the oil temp is warmed up before I get on it. I pull 5100 rpm's max.

You'll probably need at least a 31 prop to start out. You'll be looking at speeds in the low to mid 90's with a nice cruise right around 62-65.

I also highly recommend a drive shower for your drive. I run one from Innovative marine and I feel it is responsible for keeping my drive alive.

Dave

hotlavey, I helped put a new style whipple on a friends boat with a 496 last year and Dustin dialed in the computer the first try. The boat is a 25ft Eliminator Eagle with a 496 and MEIF3 ecu and he went from 67mph to 84mph. We did not change his head gaskets and so far so good. I do expect to change the gaskets this year.
I am in the process of helping another friend install a procharger on a 28ft nordic and we pulled the heads, and the gaskets suck. They were leaking between the cylinders and deformed. You are probably ok on the valve springs, but these gaskets stink for supercharged applications. A valve job will only cost maybe $100 if there is nothing wrong, small price to pay if you are spending $6000 on a whipple. If you want to install without changing them, just be prepaired to change them in the next year or 2, because, it is not IF you will have to change them, but a matter of when. And it is always at the worst time.
I put the felpro marine head gaskets (FelPro 1047
) on mine when I changed mine last year, because I didn't change mine when I installed the whipple, just like Bigwavz. I have had great success with the Felpro gaskets when drag racing cars with a lot of compression, but I think the cometic gaskets are the hot ticket.
Your Bravo XZ should do a good job for you as long as you take it easy out of the hole, and you get a drive shower. And if you do a search on this forum you will find that the simrek drive shower is the prefered drive shower. www.driveshowers.com
Hope this all helps!

I have used felpro marine and mercury - good sucess with both. Like many of us are telling you - you are going to spend the money one way or another, it is much less expensive to do it now while everything is apart opposed to the middle of the summer when your down for a month next daying parts in to get back on the water.

Rockie, the info all the folks are giving me here is absolutely amazing. I hope they, and you, know how much it is appreciated. What a great bunch of guys.
As for the drive shower, I use the Hydro Cool as it was highly recommended to me by some off-shore folks. Drive angle does not affect the water flow which is what Simrek also advertises. Hope that is correct.
I am going to spend the bucks to do it right as I will have too much invested in this thing to mickey mouse it.
I am in contact with Dustin and there are a few differing opinions but I will work those out.
Thanks again,

Tom

John,

As I mentioned to Rockie, I am going to do it right, and thanks to all you guys, I'm getting all the info in order to do that. Thanks- I'm getting poorer by the minute.

Tom

How much boost and timing were you running? I am just finishing up a 3300 on my HP500 carb. and was planning on a year or two before cyl. head and gasket change. After reading this thread I'm not so sure....I talked to Dustin and he said ANY detonation will lift the heads. I'm planning on 30 deg. total and 92 octane. I'm pissed now that it's together and heard nothing about HAVING to do the head gaskets? Think I can get a season out of stock gaskets?

If you're running the HP500 Carb engine you really should change the valve springs if you haven't already. There were many problems with those springs which Mercury changed with the EFI. I understand they are still a little weak. You could do the gaskets at the same time.

HP350C

Do yourself a favor and replace the gskts now. I highly recommend Fel Pro marine gskts and while your there replace head bolts with ARP studs if you have the room, otherwise use ARP bolts. Detonation is brutal when it happens and the stock gskts are not up to the task if they have anything over 50 or so hours on them. I run a total of 30 degrees timing. I run 93 octane beacuse I fill up on the road to lake. I have found that 93 is sometimes hard to find on the water. It does make a difference in a pressurized application.

I'm sure there are many guys who are reading this that might be running boats without doing all this extra work, but I gotta tell Ya in the long run it is great insurance to know that you will be on the lake every weekend and not missing any time on the water. Where I live your days are numbered, so why not spend a little more time and bucks to gaurantee a trouble free summer??

Good luck guys,

Bigwavz

Whipples are the best, Best low end torque and mid range right where you need it. Dustin and there crew are top notch, Highly recommended!! They built me a custom manifold to use on Brodex pro 1 heads, fit like a glove.Had Pro chargers before and the boat always came out of the hole flat, with the Wipple it now jumps out like a rocket! and pulls like a jet plane.

Aero, thanks for the input. I have decided on the Whipple and looking forward to putting it in the water this spring/summer. I have corresponded with Dustin and you're right- alot of good advice and willingness to help. Thanks again

Tom

Cut NO corners!!
Do it right the first time and be happy. Make sure you have adequate water pressure and volume also. The stepped hulls will create grief; I know first hand. :(
I am going with the Cometic gaskets and have been told they are the toughest thing out there short of o-ringing your heads.
They look a little odd but have a great reputation.
Also, use studs and not head bolts.
Good luck with your project!
Dave

Thanks Dave, good luck to you too.

HP350SC. You are probably ok for this year. I have talked to Dustin many times and he has designed the kit for a stock system, so it doesn't need head gaskets. But the stock head gaskets will not last a long long time since they were not designed for this application. Detonation is brutal when it happens on any motor and I wouldn't expect to have any gasket hold up, but when you throw the air at it, we are not dealing with a stock setup. I am not an expert with this stuff, but when I pull a head off of a motor that has 250 hrs and the gaskets are deformed and falling apart, it's not hard to see why they don't last long after supercharging.
NordicHeat has a good point about the water pressure. Dustin told me that this is the most important thing, especially with stock heads to keep the hot air pockets from forming inside the heads. Hot spot in head = detonation = melted pistons.
hotlavey, add gauges to your list of $$$$$. I have a low water pickup on my imco lower unit and my water pressure is around 20psi, but when I had the stock bravo1 (5hours) I only had 5psi. You may have to install a offshore water pickup to get the water pressure you need. Your XZ might have a low water and side pickup, my friends does and his water pressure is just fine. I guess every setup is unique.

28 Eliminator,

You're correct. I do have both a low and a side water pick- up so I should be OK. I am getting guages as those are critical to this set-up.
By the by, I used to be an Eliminator owner a few years back when a 21' was considered a big boat. Man how times have changed. I have known Bob Leach from the get go when he was in Huntington Park working out of an old service station. A really nice person.
Thanks for the input, appreciate it.

Tom

hotlavey, it sounds like you have done your home work. I think you will have a kick a$$ boat when you get this thing done. Just take your time and do it right and you will never regret it.
If you have any questions in the process just post it here and we will be glad to help. I won't give advise unless I know the answer, and I know many here are the same way.

HotLavey,
talk to Dustin about the dual water pick-ups. Dual pick ups are not a good thing in all cases; so much so Merc has issued a dealer fix. If your X dimension is high at all this can cause major water issues. Dustin as well as Merc per bulletin 2001-01 both recommend the plugging of the upper holes in the drive. With higher X dimensions (which mine has) the water tends to pound into the nose and right out the side holes starving the motor. This obviuosly leads to disaster:(
I have plugged all my uppers and slightly opened the nose holes.
Hope this helps,
Dave
If your interested in the bulletin I could fax it to you. PM me...

Lavey,

I had to do the same as Nordic on my Fountain with a Teague XR that had the dual pickups. The Whipple is fantastic and I highly recommend it.

Rockie,

The home work was done mostly with you guys right here at Offshore. What a great bunch folks with a ton of info that they are very willing to share. We really do have a fantastic fraternity. Thank you

Tom

Dave,

I would be very interested in reading that bulletin. You can fax me @ 714-5385461. My X dimension is standard production which I don't think would be considered high. After the install we will be doing a water pressure test and installing a guage to reflect that number as well as a fuel pressure guage.

Tom

Breathe,

Do you have a high X dimension? Did you enlarge the lower intakes?
Tom

You can get a pretty good idea by lowering your drive to parallel and see where the upper holes are in relation to your V or pad.
Fax is on the way.
Dave

Dave,

Received the fax- that was really fast service, thanks.
It's really confusing re: the valve,gasket question. Dustin emphasized that, with only 65-70 hours on my engine, that those items do not need to be redone. He also said that he has engines out there with 150-200 hours on them with the stock gaskets and valves and they are still running well. As I don't intend to race, and normally only cruise at 3500-4000, he said don't do it. A buzz to 5 grand periodicaly wouldn't hurt either.
Of course, I would never do that.

Tom

Hotlavey,

Yes, I enlongated the lower two holes on the bullet with a file. This was per Dustin's instructions. The upper holes were tapped and plugged with, I believe 1/16 NPT pipe plugs. I now have 20+ psi at wot.

Hotlavey,

I talked to Bob Teague at the Miami show about this and he felt 16psi was adequate. The low pickups on my stock LWP bravo gave me 30+ before the Whipple install. That's way too much according to several on this forum.

O.K. I think I will run it this summer as is. I ordered one of the Merc. relief valves to keep press. at <25lbs. My boat (22' Stoker) is a mod-vp tunnel hull. Ran 90 gps before Whipple. Going with a Max machine worx 1:26 drive with 1" shorter sportmaster with low water pickup. I'm hoping for 110mph gps...we'll see!

I'm having the Whipple installed the first week in April by a pro. It does include instruments and a trial run to check the fuel pressure, water pressure, timing, etc.
After all the help from this forum I decided that a professional install would be the safest way to go. There is so much that needs to be tested by someone familar with this install I felt I better have them do it as they will have the expertise.