Hustler 500efi engine tear down & Build Up
VIP Member
05-25-2013, 05:21 PM
#432
bead blasted all the brackets,repainted everything,
Hustler Rebuild Whipple 2013 Photos by StripPoker388 | Photobucket
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The Only Time You Have To Much Ammo Is When Your Swimming Or On Fire.
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The Only Time You Have To Much Ammo Is When Your Swimming Or On Fire.
06-01-2013, 03:58 PM
#433
reprint from enginebuilder mag
Surface Finish Requirements
MLS head gaskets are made of several layers of embossed stainless steel (most are 3 or 4 layers thick, but some have more). A thin coating (.001˝ to .0015˝) of nitrile rubber or Viton is used on the external surfaces as well as between the layers to provide maximum sealing.
Most aftermarket MLS gaskets can handle surface finishes as rough as 60 to 70 Ra microinches, but some specify a smoother finish of 30 to 50 Ra. Smoother is always better, and if you can get the finish down to the low teens or even single digit, great! But for most applications, a surface finish in the 20 to 30 Ra range is more than smooth enough for a performance MLS gasket.
If you are building a street performance engine that has a cast iron block and aluminum heads, and are using conventional steel/fiber composite head gaskets or expanded graphite head gaskets, the surface finish should ideally be 60 to 80 Ra (360 to 480 Rz).
Don’t go smoother than 40 Ra (240 Rz) or rougher than 100 Ra (600 Rz) with a composition gasket. Rougher surfaces limit gasket conformance, while smoother surfaces increase the tendency for gaskets to flow, reducing the gaskets blow out resistance.
If you are using a stock MLS head gasket, the surface finish should be 30 Ra (180 Rz) or less unless the MLS gasket has a thicker coating that can seal a rougher surface. Note: Never apply any kind of sealer to a MLS gasket! It may react with the coating and cause a problem.
Though Ra (Roughness Average) has traditionally been used to describe surface finish, most gasket engineers today say a more accurate perimeter is Rz, which is the average difference between the peak height and valley depth. Ra can have a wide variance across a given surface profile, so Rz gives a better indication of the actual texture across the surface.
To measure Ra or Rz, you need a profilometer. If you don’t have one, you are shooting in the dark and assuming the surface finish you’re getting is in the ball park. Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t. The only way to know for sure is to actually measure it. Most dry milling machines with the proper CBN or PCD cutting bits can achieve an extremely smooth surface finish.
Waviness across the surface is also important. The less waviness the better: no more than .0004˝ with MLS head gaskets. Trouble is, you can’t measure waviness with a profilometer. It takes special (expensive!) lab equipment. Waviness problems can be caused by vibrations and a lack of rigidity in milling equipment.
The flatness of the head and block surfaces is also critical in a performance engine. The maximum amount of out-of-flat should not exceed .001˝ within three inches in any direction in a stock engine, so even less is best for a performance build.
For a V8 engine, the maximum allowable out-of-flat specification for stock cylinder head and block deck surfaces is .004˝ lengthwise and .002˝ sideways. Aim for .002˝ if you’re building a performance engine. For a V6, the recommendation for a stock engine is less than .003˝ out-of-flat lengthwise and .002˝ sideways. Again, shoot for half that with a performance build.
As for an in-line six cylinder engine, the stock recommendation is no more than .006˝ lengthwise and .002˝ sideways out of flat. If you have .003˝ or less out-of-flat lengthwise and .001˝ sideways, you should be in good shape to seal up the head gasket.
Surface Finish Requirements
MLS head gaskets are made of several layers of embossed stainless steel (most are 3 or 4 layers thick, but some have more). A thin coating (.001˝ to .0015˝) of nitrile rubber or Viton is used on the external surfaces as well as between the layers to provide maximum sealing.
Most aftermarket MLS gaskets can handle surface finishes as rough as 60 to 70 Ra microinches, but some specify a smoother finish of 30 to 50 Ra. Smoother is always better, and if you can get the finish down to the low teens or even single digit, great! But for most applications, a surface finish in the 20 to 30 Ra range is more than smooth enough for a performance MLS gasket.
If you are building a street performance engine that has a cast iron block and aluminum heads, and are using conventional steel/fiber composite head gaskets or expanded graphite head gaskets, the surface finish should ideally be 60 to 80 Ra (360 to 480 Rz).
Don’t go smoother than 40 Ra (240 Rz) or rougher than 100 Ra (600 Rz) with a composition gasket. Rougher surfaces limit gasket conformance, while smoother surfaces increase the tendency for gaskets to flow, reducing the gaskets blow out resistance.
If you are using a stock MLS head gasket, the surface finish should be 30 Ra (180 Rz) or less unless the MLS gasket has a thicker coating that can seal a rougher surface. Note: Never apply any kind of sealer to a MLS gasket! It may react with the coating and cause a problem.
Though Ra (Roughness Average) has traditionally been used to describe surface finish, most gasket engineers today say a more accurate perimeter is Rz, which is the average difference between the peak height and valley depth. Ra can have a wide variance across a given surface profile, so Rz gives a better indication of the actual texture across the surface.
To measure Ra or Rz, you need a profilometer. If you don’t have one, you are shooting in the dark and assuming the surface finish you’re getting is in the ball park. Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t. The only way to know for sure is to actually measure it. Most dry milling machines with the proper CBN or PCD cutting bits can achieve an extremely smooth surface finish.
Waviness across the surface is also important. The less waviness the better: no more than .0004˝ with MLS head gaskets. Trouble is, you can’t measure waviness with a profilometer. It takes special (expensive!) lab equipment. Waviness problems can be caused by vibrations and a lack of rigidity in milling equipment.
The flatness of the head and block surfaces is also critical in a performance engine. The maximum amount of out-of-flat should not exceed .001˝ within three inches in any direction in a stock engine, so even less is best for a performance build.
For a V8 engine, the maximum allowable out-of-flat specification for stock cylinder head and block deck surfaces is .004˝ lengthwise and .002˝ sideways. Aim for .002˝ if you’re building a performance engine. For a V6, the recommendation for a stock engine is less than .003˝ out-of-flat lengthwise and .002˝ sideways. Again, shoot for half that with a performance build.
As for an in-line six cylinder engine, the stock recommendation is no more than .006˝ lengthwise and .002˝ sideways out of flat. If you have .003˝ or less out-of-flat lengthwise and .001˝ sideways, you should be in good shape to seal up the head gasket.
__________________
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The Only Time You Have To Much Ammo Is When Your Swimming Or On Fire.
.
The Only Time You Have To Much Ammo Is When Your Swimming Or On Fire.
06-01-2013, 04:04 PM
#434
On the 500efi merc motors comes with arp head bolts, I switched to studs w/ 12 point heads, The CMI headers will have to be clearance to clear the studs,it almost goes to the outside weld on the flange,[ATTACH=CONFIG]501837[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]501838[/ATTACH]
__________________
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The Only Time You Have To Much Ammo Is When Your Swimming Or On Fire.
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The Only Time You Have To Much Ammo Is When Your Swimming Or On Fire.
Platinum Member
06-03-2013, 11:23 AM
#437
DAYTON Utility Pump 115VAC - Flexible Impeller Pedestal Pumps - 5UXL7|5UXL7 - Grainger Industrial Supply
Harbor freight has one like it also
__________________
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The Only Time You Have To Much Ammo Is When Your Swimming Or On Fire.
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The Only Time You Have To Much Ammo Is When Your Swimming Or On Fire.
07-17-2013, 03:31 PM
#438
Finally got it running, working out a few leaks etc, Trying to figure out why the new Whipples are down on boost on both engines?? I did find out people recommending the wrong sealants for the superchargers sealing surfaces.
I was told the Permatex Anaerobic Red was better than everything , It dissolved from the gas,It leaked the first time I hit boost,so i had to pull both blowers off and take them apart and reseal them.
In between this Whipple recommended the right stuff,Glad I didn't use it,Its not made for gas contact either, so it would of dissolved also, I found out the Right stuff and the ultra black has the same adhesive and sealing property's, one has a quicker set up time, but both require 24 hour cure time, again Permatex told me that it would fail and leak too
After cleaning all the gummy red shet off I used old faithful Permatex #3 aviation form a gasket, It is gasoline proof.
Now the Permatex tech said they have a sealant that's impervious to most everything,He recommended it, Permatex Permasheild in a silver tube,blue/gray color, He said it would be the best product for sealing up all the supercharger surfaces and hold up to boost ,I could all so use it on the orings, like the whipples will leak at the ends were there is no bolts,
So next time ill try the Permasheild.
this info in from my experience and what Permatex tech told me, fyi
I have put my old pulleys on today and it should tell me if its the blowers.
Rob
I was told the Permatex Anaerobic Red was better than everything , It dissolved from the gas,It leaked the first time I hit boost,so i had to pull both blowers off and take them apart and reseal them.
In between this Whipple recommended the right stuff,Glad I didn't use it,Its not made for gas contact either, so it would of dissolved also, I found out the Right stuff and the ultra black has the same adhesive and sealing property's, one has a quicker set up time, but both require 24 hour cure time, again Permatex told me that it would fail and leak too
After cleaning all the gummy red shet off I used old faithful Permatex #3 aviation form a gasket, It is gasoline proof.
Now the Permatex tech said they have a sealant that's impervious to most everything,He recommended it, Permatex Permasheild in a silver tube,blue/gray color, He said it would be the best product for sealing up all the supercharger surfaces and hold up to boost ,I could all so use it on the orings, like the whipples will leak at the ends were there is no bolts,
So next time ill try the Permasheild.
this info in from my experience and what Permatex tech told me, fyi
I have put my old pulleys on today and it should tell me if its the blowers.
Rob
__________________
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The Only Time You Have To Much Ammo Is When Your Swimming Or On Fire.
.
The Only Time You Have To Much Ammo Is When Your Swimming Or On Fire.
07-18-2013, 02:45 PM
#440
Thanks for the comp,I emailed loctite tech and this is the reply they sent me,I guess the silicone in the sealers/rtv doesnt resist gas, but is ok with oils.
Rob,
Loctite 598 withstands automotive fluids such as motor oil, transmission fluids, alcohol and antifreeze. It is not however recommended to be used in contact with gasoline, as the silicone material will swell.
Regards,
Nicole Lavoie
Technical Information Representative
Henkel Adhesive Technologies - AG North America
One Henkel Way
Rocky Hill, CT USA
(860) 571-5129
[email protected]
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Want a free workshop? Got an hour to
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.
The Only Time You Have To Much Ammo Is When Your Swimming Or On Fire.
.
The Only Time You Have To Much Ammo Is When Your Swimming Or On Fire.
