Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

I remember reading that they were supposed to be available for big blocks soon.
Anyone have any experience with them?

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

You might want to contact Bob (rmbuilder) on this site.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

I am using Isky hydraulic roller lifters. When I ordered my cam and lifters, I was told by an Isky tech. that they are Morel lifters.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Are these the hydaulic roller lifters that are supposed to be good to 6500 RPM?

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

I spoke to Isky today and was told that they purchase lifters from Morel.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

I have not got a chance to use them yet. I just built this motor. It only has dyno time on it so far. I have heard good things about Isky or Morel Lifters. I hope they work out.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Morel is a tier 1 supplier so there is a good chance that many of you may have seen their product branded with other suppliers names. The engineering on these pieces is outstanding as evidenced by their users (John Force/McLaren Engines/Top Truck and Busch Teams.). I will have a technical sheet available right after PRI with some amazing durabliity testing results.
Bob

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Tomcat,
These lifters are manufactured to very tight spec tolerance and depending on spring pressures and valvetrain weight will extend the useable range.
Bob

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Tomcat,
The Morel uses their own petal valving in the body of the lifter. With this and the tight tolerances that Ed is able to hold, yes the lifter will take more rpm then other hyd. roller lifters. On the the solid side, I have used the stuff for years now with NO failures due to mfg or lifter fatigue. If Isky is admitting they are using Morel as a supplier then that speaks boat loads of Morels quality.

Chris

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

I plan on using the Morel hydraulic roller lifters on my next lifter change.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

How much for bb chevy solid rollers?

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

JCPERF,
Your PM box is full.
Bob

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

All clear now.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

When talkin weight, the Iskys are a considerable amount heavier than the Cranes. Are'nt the Cranes and Mercury's lifters all the same thing? I've checked the tooling marks and they're both the same. They even weigh exactly the same. Never had the chance to use the Morels, don't know if they're any better than the Cranes, but I would appreciate any info that anyone might want to give up on the comparison.
Also, can they live with valve spring pressures around #170-175 on the seat? If you want to turn 6500 rpm with any kind of a severly aggressive profile camshaft, you need that kind of v/s pressures with atleast 450 or better at v/o.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

10x,

I am not certain what the spring pressure limitations are of Morel or Isky lifters. I can tell you that Isky told me to set my springs up at 140# on the seat and 400# open.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Yea they are indeed Morel. I set the springs up at 155 on the seat with no problems.

And I can pass along an outstanding deal on them.

If you quiz Isky enough they will tell you that the offshore guys are "getting away" with 160 on the seat.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Sutphen 30,
Sent you a PM
Bob

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Yeah... That's what they all say, but only to extend the life of the lifter.
I tried 140# on the seat and about 385# at 600 lift, and with a mild (230-235) duration cam everything was fine till 5600 rpm. No matter what I did, the engines fell flat at 5800. End of the season I pulled the engines to make a few changes.When I lifted the heads to check the valve springs, cause I found signs of valve float, I found almost half of my valves were being pushed through the retainers. Some stems were flush with the locks. Bottoms of some of the roller rockers were hitting the retainers.
What a F'n mess. Bottom line here is no one expects you to run more than 5450 rpm. I think that's what the mercruiser rev limiters are set for at the factory. When you start going over those rpm's, those light v/s combinations can't handle it.
I had valve float so bad, it's a miracle i did'nt lose a valve.
After many lenghty conversations with a marine (offshore) technication at Crane, he finally gave up the truth on spring pressures, rpm's and longivity of hyd. roller lifters. And if you want to turn 6000+ rpm's and make the bigger hp, you CAN'T expect your valve train and especially hyd rollers to last. It cuts their life in half, at the best.
Now we run 175# on the seat, and 490# at 650 lift, and hav'nt had any valve train issue in 2 seasons.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

10x,
Thats good to know. I set mine up at 150# closed and 435# open. I only have a 608 lift cam , 248* duration @ .050.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

10x, Very interesting. I have always heard/been told that 140lbs on the seat and about 380-400lbs open were about max on a hydraulic lifter before the plunger in the lifter begins to depress. At WOT, I like to see my engines run out to a max of 5600-5800rpm. Very rarely do I take them up that far though and if I do it's only for about 30 seconds or so.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

10X

Jeff is putting Morel's in my motors. I don't plan to turn 6000 rpm :eek: but I'm glad to hear they are the way to go.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

10x has a good point. I just got the heads off my engines this weekend. My heads also show signs of valve float. Crane advises using 150 on the seat and 400+ open. The guy that put my new heads together used 140 and I'm going to check them to see what they actually are. Last year, when I broke a lifter , I changed from solid rollers to hyd rollers, I asked the tech at Crane if I could use my existing cyl heads without changing springs. He said go ahead and it worked fine with 200 lbs of seat pressure. If the bearings in the lifter are the same size as solid rollers and the hydraulics can take it, why not?

As for the Morel lifters, I'm not happy adding to the weight of the valve train. I am considering using Comp's new beehive valvesprings to lighten it up some. How much difference is there?

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Just a note form Morel. A company tested the solid lifter design to 8400 rpm for 5M cycles. Lifters were perfect. Decided to go for broke, repeated the test. Lifters were perfect again. That is a testiment to their quality.

Chris

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

It seems like the maximum spring pressure one would want, would be the minimum it takes to get the job done. If you can operate at 150lbs, why would you want to run 200? It takes away horsepower, and is much harder on the valve seats and the complete valve train.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

The minimum spring pressure is that which controls the valvetrain with no float at your desired rpm. Valve float will damage parts and reduce horsepower. As far as running 200lbs, I was rushing the repair in order to salvage the rest of the season. I was not recommending it, just saying that it can be done and the hydraulics in the lifter can handle it. I do believe that Frank (10x) is right on the money and there is benefit to running a little more spring pressure.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

There is a common misconception that the energy to compress the springs is lost.. not so.. the majority of it is returned on the back side of the camshaft. The energy that is lost is called hysterisis, which is internal friction in the spring itself. This is what causes the spring to heat up. If you were to graph the opening and closing rates on a linear graph.. then it becomes obvious that the valve is lifted off the seat, accelerated to full opening.. and then decelerated and slowly lowered onto the seat... The spring pressure isn't as big a factor on wear as you would think. But.. having the valve not follow the cam,,, the valve then "crashes" onto the seat.. This is much more damaging. Also it tends to hammer the keeper into the valve spring retainer. If you are using light weight retainers, they will begin to expand in the area of the keepers and quickly fail. Sometimes they will fail when not even running the engine hard. They have just give up and let the valve keepers slide through.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Not to change the subject. But has anyone experienced Rhoads hyd lifters? I have a bumpy cam and was wondering if they would calm it down a little. They make some interesting claims.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

cstraub69, if the test was at 8400 then they must have had some fairly stout spring pressures. From what I hear in a boat application trying to idle for 5-10 minutes at a time at 800-1000 rpm the spring pressures create excess heat in the lifter due to lack of oil getting to the lifter/cam, then it is all down hill from there. Do you happen to know what Morel is recomending for pressures to run 6200-6500 with their solid roller? Is their design of the lifter any different than competitors that gives them an advantage or is it materialsn they use? Thanks, Bob

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Hey there you go for a challenge.

5m cycles at idle. :drink:

I use Morel lifters (via Isky) in all of my engnies and never had a problem. The solid lifters are pressure fed pins. No idle problems that I have seen and 155ish on the seat for the hyd rollers. Spin them to just over 6K RPM

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Morel makes lifters for Isky, however there are certain design differences in the Morel name lifters.
Bob

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

I'm in the process of doing cam, lifter, and carb upgrades on what used to be a pair of HP500's. I'm trying to decide which route to go with lifters, and Morel's sound interesting. Other than this thread, I've not found much info online for Morel's.

My builder needs to know what the lifter height is on these, both from the roller-to-tie bar centerline, as well as roller-to-cup distance so he can get the geometry right and plan for push rod length.

Is there a Morel website out there? Tech support hotline? I haven't even found a supplier for them. Any ideas?

Another question: did Merc Racing use crane roller lifters in the HP500's? If so, what is the part number? These are 1998 models. Anyone know if there are differences in size between these and the Morel's?

Thanks,
Brian

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Morels are a true drop in to OEM specifications and take the stock length Hyd roller pushrod length. They are fully machined from alloy bar stock steel. Morel is a tier one supplier to several OEM vendors and has been in business for 80 years. The marine hyd rollers were extensively tested for idle capability and high rpm endurance runs. There quality is why several people have gone to them. RM builder is a dealer for them, you can contact him.

Chris

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Thanks Chris. I've talked with Bob and I'll soon be running these in my setup.

Brian

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

i just bought 2 sets fropm rm builder they were less than the cranes by 30 bucks. i hear the cranes quality control is weak so i returned them and got the morrels from bob/rm builder. i learned of the morrell lifters hear on this sit. so thx all and thx bob for specing out the cams you had ground for my blower motors. ratman

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

So, that would be evidence of valve float?? My 454 heads had that issue, was wondering what caused it. Standard rockers, not rollers... Rocker arms on a few cylinders were skewed to one side, guide plates worn. One valve stem was into the retainer, I guess 20 minutes away from dropping :eek: :eek:

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

There is a myth that high spring pressure causes the heads of the valve to fall off, or that it robs the engine of HP. The only time the valve head see's these loads is when it's resting on the seat. The rest of the time the lifter,valve,pushrod,ect. is SUPPOSED to stay in contact with the cam.Too little spring pressure is the cause of most valvetrain failures. The hardest thing to fight in the valvetrain is valve bounce witch leads to revision, and most valvetrain problems. Too low spring pressure starts effecting the engine at low speeds and usually is not noticed until the valve actually floats, but all the way through the RPM band you were loosing HP. Most lifter failures I believe get blamed on the lifter, but in most cases it was probably caused by the spring. I would say 150 to 170 pounds of seat pressure for HYD roller, and 200 to 220 for solid roller with at least vascojet material for the spring.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Strip, what is that? Hard to make out what's going on.

Brian

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

Its supose to taking a lifter apart.

Re: Anyone using Morel Lifters?
 

They said it takes the lifter apart. I guess the plunger thingy :D

Bill I am finished with the cast iron. Next is cut the heads and valve job and cc the heads , and mock to make sure on the angles on the intake.slow go.

I am now told there may be some clean up on the intake runners on the Whipple intake :(