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Volvo vs. Merc.
Why does Mercruiser have so much more of the market share?
Is Mercruiser's product that much better than Volvo Penta's? Aren't the engines basically the same? |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Firt question, ----- Marketing
Second question------NO Third--------Yes |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
I agree with Whiteknuckle.....As a pure stock setup, Volvo might actually be better, just don't plan on doing any upgrades!!!!
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
mercruiser dominates the market mostly becuase of problames in Volvo Pentas past. they have made alot of poor product, Merc has had thier share too though. Currently as far a stock family boat that you dont want to do more then 60 in Volvo does build a superior product. However, I used to work at a shop that was a dealer for both and Mercruiser is a dream to deal with on warranty and when a dealer goes to bat for a customer they will ussually bend over backwards and cover things under what they call "customer relations" even when it is clearly not a warranty issue. They once payed for an engine that had a cracked head to a burned impeller that hadn't been changed for 230 hours but the guy had an extended warranty and he put a stink and they took care of it. Perhaps this is why thier engines cost so damded much though. Volvo is a pain in the ass to deal with on warranty issues, once you have bought thier product, you are on your own and becusae of this they don't get much repeat buissnes
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
I think merc dominates with bully power.
Merc wouldn't allow Lipship to show any cigs at the miami show with ZUL power. |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
If the engines are basically the same, is it totally strange to bolt a Volvo Penta to a Merc Bravo drive?
I did it two years ago... Bought my boat without power and found a great deal on Volvo Penta's version of the 7.4MPI (7.4Gi). I bought from a fellow advertising Volvo Penta test engines here on OSO. The engine cost me less than a reman long-block and it was complete with all accessories... :D I was ordering some parts from him the other day and he told me that he may gain access to a bunch more. He doesn't know if he will advertise here again though. I guess most of us OSO guys are willing to pay nearly double for an engine painted black vs. red... :rolleyes: |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
A friend of mine had a Volvo Duoprop and that outdrive was tough! He beat on it hard and hit bottom a few times hard enough to bend a blade right over. I guarantee a Bravo would not have held up to the abuse he put that Volvo through!
I really wanted Volvo to break into the performance market with their 500 and 600 packages. But, merc has a stranglehold on the market. Pat, so you basically bought complete engines with only testing hours on them? |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by noboat
I really wanted Volvo to break into the performance market with their 500 and 600 packages. But, merc has a stranglehold on the market. |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by t500hps
I agree with Whiteknuckle.....As a pure stock setup, Volvo might actually be better, just don't plan on doing any upgrades!!!!
I added Stainless marine exhaust to my 7.4Gi... The 385HP/7.4GSi and 420HP/8.2GSi engine came with AZ Speed intakes; the same as Merc's HP500EFI and HP525EFI. That intake must be better or Merc. would not have made the switch... |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by noboat
Pat, so you basically bought complete engines with only testing hours on them?
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by hillbilly24
mercruiser dominates the market mostly becuase of problames in Volvo Pentas past. they have made alot of poor product, Merc has had thier share too though. Currently as far a stock family boat that you dont want to do more then 60 in Volvo does build a superior product. However, I used to work at a shop that was a dealer for both and Mercruiser is a dream to deal with on warranty and when a dealer goes to bat for a customer they will ussually bend over backwards and cover things under what they call "customer relations" even when it is clearly not a warranty issue. They once payed for an engine that had a cracked head to a burned impeller that hadn't been changed for 230 hours but the guy had an extended warranty and he put a stink and they took care of it. Perhaps this is why thier engines cost so damded much though. Volvo is a pain in the ass to deal with on warranty issues, once you have bought thier product, you are on your own and becusae of this they don't get much repeat buissnes
Strange ... in 35 years my experiences are point for point the exact opposite of those above .... except for .*merc has had their share too* :D For me if it's between 0 and 425 hp its red .. after that you can have whatever you want !.. |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
The Volvo duoprop seems to be stronger than Bravo III especially in heavier boats. A builder of fishing boats in the south told me he was experiencing 80% failure rate of the Bravo III in boats over 8500lbs. He had no such problems with the Volvo duoprop.
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by madbouyz
Strange ... in 35 years my experiences are point for point the exact opposite of those above .... except for .*merc has had their share too* :D
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by Pat McPherson
Why does Mercruiser have so much more of the market share?
Is Mercruiser's product that much better than Volvo Penta's? Aren't the engines basically the same? It probably helps that Brunswick ( merc's parent company) owns some of the largest boat manufacturers out there. And some of the one's they don't own, they have been know to loan money to, or own stock in. ......kind of guarantees you market share :D |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by Pismo10
The Volvo duoprop seems to be stronger than Bravo III especially in heavier boats. A builder of fishing boats in the south told me he was experiencing 80% failure rate of the Bravo III in boats over 8500lbs. He had no such problems with the Volvo duoprop.
Hands Down I'll take a Volvo over a Merc anyday. I walk through my Marina and all I see are Bravo 3's with rot all over them. Yet all the boats with Volvo Duo Props are rot free. Hmmmm strange but these people will replace their Bravo 3's with a new Bravo 3. Yet the people with Volvo don't have to replace their drives due to corrosion every other year or 3 . |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
I am in the process of re-powering my boat right now...my boat came with a volvo 330hp duo-prop and ran trouble free for the first owner and now myself for 4 years. Although it is against the grain here on OSO I have decided to stick with the Volvo. I am repowering for reason of more reliable HP... not for problems with the old motor. Yes it is true that Merc is superior for adding HP after the warrenty is up but I feel 420+HP is plenty for my 25' boat.....and turnkey reliable too....besides if I do get the bug for more speed I have heard Raylar makes a bolt on kit for any 496 motor including Volvo :D .
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
I have OMCs and if I have any problems I'm going with Volvos next time.
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
No one has mentioned that for every Volvo authorized service center there are 20 Mercruiser.
Mercruiser replacement parts are less expensive partly because they are mass-produced compared to Volvo. Price a Y-pipe for a Volvo 280 or 290 and you'll see what I mean. Most Volvo places won't stock them, so you wait for a special order and you pay the shipping. Sold used high performance boats for many years...buyers want the black thing hanging off the transom. |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
From my personal experience with Volvo Penta, I have not had any problems getting parts from my local dealer. The prices have been vary comparable to Merc; maybe less $$.
Has anyone ever bought an oil pump from Merc.? A friend of mine just ordered one for his 525SC and it was $500. I bet him a 30 pack that it was the same as a $100 one from GM. Guess who won the bet? One vary expensive sticker they put on the box... :eek: I had a 1975 Donzi with a Volvo 280 and the only thing I ever had to buy were zincs. I now have kind of a mix with my Volvo engine and Merc drive and it works well for me. There are lots of prop choises for my Bravo drive along with after market stuff like external steering and drive showers. As for the engine I will say that I like the the serpentine set up, the crank driven sea pump, and fuel pump placement far better than the way Merc has there stuff bolted on... :rolleyes: I'm rebuilding a Merc. 502 this winter and I will be using all of the accessories off my Volvo Penta 7.4, not the Merc stuff. I may even buy an AZ Speed Intake off of a Volvo 8.2...:p |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
I believe in Volvos especially on dual prop heavier boats but I do love the Mercs. My 1979 305 V8 Mercruiser pre-alpha sterndrive went over 3000hrs with no problems. Original valve train, all original manifolds, engine never opened up. I even used the original water pump impeller until 2003, thats 24 years and 2800+hrs on the original impeller without a propblem. Drive never blew up, replaced transom bearing a couple times and one u-joint once. Some new accessories but no major problems in over 3000hrs. Hope to get that kind of life out of my 1996 502 Mag bravo I.
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by Edward R. Cozzi
Sold used high performance boats for many years...buyers want the black thing hanging off the transom.
If I were selling a boat I would want Mercs. If I were driving a boat I would want Volvos. |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
I remember yrs ago I was in my Liberator in the Thousand Islands with a King Cobra out back. Hit some rocks and needed a new prop, had left the spare at home :rolleyes: limped into Gananocque to find a replacement...... Five Marinas in town, Four Merc, one OMC (and a real dump at that) .... they managed to have the prop but it was an eye opener. Not a real big deal to us go fasts but a bunch of friends of mine are cruiser guys and it is huge to them (and they outnumber us....10 to 1??) Its nothing but Mercs for them...... If your out cruising far from home and need a Marina, the next one you come to .........is probably a Merc dealer.............doug
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
The smooth shifting cone clutch setup that merc uses in the Bravo and that OMC used in the later King Cobras was based on Volvo's design. Thier patent ran out in 1986 or so, and then Merc and OMC could start using thier own versions.
I ran a '73 20' Monza with a 468ci 470hp BBC pushing a '73 270 volvo drive with nose cone to an honest 76mph. Used custom Mach 28" prop (1.60? ratio) and treated it like a drag boat for the 3 years I had the boat. Prop was blowing out and "burning", so the drive wouldn't go any faster - the drive bullet was half as long as a bravo even with the nose cone. Mach guys thought I was nuts asking for a 28" prop for a 270 drive. Seemed like a well built drive, shifted smooth, but looked like hell. Considering the cars Volvo was making, was it any surprise they didn't go after the performance market??!! nope........ |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by Hang Time 27
The smooth shifting cone clutch setup that merc uses in the Bravo and that OMC used in the later King Cobras was based on Volvo's design. Thier patent ran out in 1986 or so, and then Merc and OMC could start using thier own versions.
I ran a '73 20' Monza with a 468ci 470hp BBC pushing a '73 270 volvo drive with nose cone to an honest 76mph. Used custom Mach 28" prop (1.60? ratio) and treated it like a drag boat for the 3 years I had the boat. Prop was blowing out and "burning", so the drive wouldn't go any faster - the drive bullet was half as long as a bravo even with the nose cone. Mach guys thought I was nuts asking for a 28" prop for a 270 drive. Cheap. Over in Donzi forum. I like his 270 drives. Man they shift smooth. |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Well here is one of my "Murphy's Law" experiences with Merc. A $6000 drive (ie. Bravo III) protected a $7.00 zinc by rotting first. A guy was complaining about losing drive oil. We pulled his boat, which had been in the water around 6 months or so, and a hole had been corroded through the side of the case, but the zincs were ok. :eek: I think we've all seen this more than once.
I have seen Volvo 270 and 280 drives sit in salt water for a year without zincs and come out in the same condition that they went in. I've even seen the stainless trim lines rot before the aluminum case of a DPS drive did. Volvo's bread and butter is diesel. So they'll advertise diesel. Volvo's gas advertisement amounts to its manufacturing customers posting their logo along with their magazine advertisements or through positive articles in those same magazines. I don't think they viewed gas as a corporate staple. But when you don't advertise, people don't really know who you are. That's why Merc is a household name. Like jt29olhp500s said, it doesn't hurt that your parent company, Brunswick, owns some of the largest boating manufacturers in the world. Think about it, the name Volvo, to most, conjures up visions of Swedish automobiles, not Detroit, or in Volvo's case Lexington, TN. After having worked on both, it's pretty clear to me where the real quality is. |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by Pat McPherson
Why does Mercruiser have so much more of the market share?
Is Mercruiser's product that much better than Volvo Penta's? Aren't the engines basically the same? 02-23-2005 Volvo Penta Ranks Highest in J.D. Power and Associates Study Volvo Penta gasoline sterndrives rank highest in customer satisfaction, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2005 Marine Engine Competitive Information Study(SM) released at the Miami International Boat Show. In the past ten years, Volvo Penta has become a strong engine and propulsion provider in the U.S boating market, as a result of a very strong product and service offering. This positive trend is evident upon reviewing the 2005 J.D. Power and Associates Marine Engine Competitive Information Study. This latest study was based on responses from 12,530 owners who registered a new boat between March 2003 and May 2004. Ten marine engine brands, including outboards, sterndrives and gasoline inboards, were included in the study. In the study, J.D. Power queried boat owners on a variety of engine attributes including ease of starting the engine, quietness of engine at cruising speed, reliability of engine, fuel economy, amount of engine fumes, smoothness when shifting into gear, and the ability of the boat to accelerate rapidly. The study results indicated that Volvo Penta gasoline sterndrives have the highest satisfaction score in every specific engine sub-component. Volvo Penta excelled with the reliability of their engines, which is the most important engine attribute, and ease of starting the engine. Additionally Volvo Penta gasoline sterndrives were rated highest for quietness at cruise, fuel economy, lack of engine fumes and shifting smoothness. Volvo Penta of the Americas President Clint Moore said, "We are extremely pleased and proud to have received this award. While Volvo Penta products have always been highly regarded, the J.D. Power and Associates award provides tangible evidence that our commitment to making our owners' boating experience the best it can be, is working." To complement the J.D. Power and Associates award for Highest Satisfaction in Sterndrives, Volvo Penta has recently received the Marine Industry CSI award for Excellence in Customer Satisfaction - the only recipient in the Sterndrive engine category. Volvo Penta is a member of the Volvo Group, a publicly held company headquartered in Gothenburg, Sweden. With annual sales of approximately $27 billion (USD), Volvo is a world-leading manufacturer of heavy trucks, buses, construction equipment, marine and industrial engines, aerospace components, and financial services. In the United States, Volvo shares are listed on NASDAQ and are traded as ADRs (symbol: VOLVY). |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
If Volvo wants to tap into the high performance market they need to go racing with their equivalent of a #6 SSM dry-sump.
They would have to pay their dues on the racing circuit just like everybody else. It's no secret in the boating industry that Volvos have better corrosion resistance. |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Instead, they are going after the large cruiser market. Have you seen thier new "pusher" outdrives for twin inboards? Looks like complete lower outdrive units that are mounted under the boat and turn like a rudders, with the duo-props in front for clean bite?? ingenious set up......
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by Hang Time 27
Instead, they are going after the large cruiser market. Have you seen thier new "pusher" outdrives for twin inboards? Looks like complete lower outdrive units that are mounted under the boat and turn like a rudders, with the duo-props in front for clean bite?? ingenious set up......
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
JD Power has a great name but there ratings are a little strange. There car ratings/rankings end up depending on ridiculous things like cup holders and wind noise so who knows about their boat reviews, maybe good, maybe weird like their car ratings. I trust the 20+ year experienced guys on this board far more.
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Mercury alphas and bravos were a direct copy of volvo's when there patent ran out.Especially the uppers.Volvo Duo-prop another copycat by merc.Volvo's are the cadillac of drives.This thread reminds me of Chevy/Ford/Mopar! Ford own the rearend department. :D
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Thought I would chime inwith my two cents and sometimes limited knowlege, thats about all it's worth,HA! When it comes to standard marine inboard or outdrive powerplants in gas, Merc and Volvo buy their engines assembled from the same supplier- GM Powertrain. The motors are shipped to each and accessorized and painted with their respective colors, black and red and believe me because I have dissassemled a few, they paint them where they can and where they can't reach with paint, they are unpainted. So the engines are identical except for things like pumps, brackets, ECM's and etc. As for the drives their are a lot of pro and cons. Volvo, because they have such a big presence in diesel, their bigger drives seem a little stronger than Bravos not counting the Merc. #6's And only God and real rich folks can afford those! Obviously Volvo has a long way to go in grabbing more market share and my suggestion would be to come out with a solid affordable warrantied outdrive in the 500HP to 750HP range where Mercury has not filled the void. This would ratchet Volvo up the ladder very quickly. Old Chinese proverb say "find a need and fill it"!
Just some ramblings, Ray @ Raylar |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by Pat McPherson
I would agree that there are not any bolt on goodies for the Ford/Volvo Penta engines but the Chevy stuff is the same.
I added Stainless marine exhaust to my 7.4Gi... The 385HP/7.4GSi and 420HP/8.2GSi engine came with AZ Speed intakes; the same as Merc's HP500EFI and HP525EFI. That intake must be better or Merc. would not have made the switch... Got my 502 from the same guy as Pat great deal 6500 and she runs like 500 almost :D I added the Merc racing Air filter and the Stainless marines I can hit about 71 gps So far so good only put 38 hours on her had 6 when I picked it up |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Merc just filled that void with the 525, 600, and 850 introduced at the Miami show.
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Sure the 525/Bravo makes sense, as does the 800/#6 for the really rich, but the 600 - 700hp void is still there. Too much motor for the bravo's, and not enouph to justify the #6..........
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Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by wwwTOPDJcom
Got my 502 from the same guy as Pat
great deal 6500 and she runs like 500 almost :D I added the Merc racing Air filter and the Stainless marines I can hit about 71 gps So far so good only put 38 hours on her had 6 when I picked it up |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by Hang Time 27
Sure the 525/Bravo makes sense, as does the 800/#6 for the really rich, but the 600 - 700hp void is still there. Too much motor for the bravo's, and not enouph to justify the #6..........
Konrad solution |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by wwwTOPDJcom
my engine was black when I got it
Konrad solution |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
2 Attachment(s)
I have a grey one...
They come red these days. |
Re: Volvo vs. Merc.
Originally Posted by Hang Time 27
sorry, thought it was a volvo and that they came a diff color, my bad:D
it is a Volvo but uses the same HP 500-525 intake the throttle body is slightly different than a HP series and the cam/valves are different along with a diff ECM so if I ever get my hands on those parts I could get a HP increase. as far as this hull concerned I dont need it 70 is plenty with a stepped hull and without Hyd steering. I think the Bravo will last a bit longer too |
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