A/C and Generator
 

I am looking for feedback on boaters who have a generator and A/C on their powerboats. I live in South Florida and I am looking at a new 39ft V bottom boat. I think a generator and A/C would be a good idea if is is not too much trouble.

Re: A/C and Generator
 

If you spend the nights on the boat, my opinion is you need the AC. The gen comes into play if you like to run the AC while anchored somewhere. My boat has both.

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I've got a 5KW Kohler genset and a 10,000 BTU reverse cycle A/C unit on my Formula SR357.

The 5KW is probably more than needed--3KW would be plenty. A real issue with generator is that the genset needs to run once a week for 60 minutes under load. Keep that in mind also.

Think about putting in a system that will let you run a/c and genset off the hose of boat is stored on trailer or out of water.

The 10K BTU A/C is by Mermaid Air--Formula installed it because it has a very compact footprint--that is key issue on a new install. I've found that the Reverse Cycle on A/C is necesary and only adds a few bucks to cost.

There are several made here in FL that will sell direct and are first rate products---but check the dimensions of unit and cabinet. Also check on how you can routhe the coolant water from the thru hull to the unit and check how you are going to dispose of the condensate. I installed a "CONDENSATOR" that picksup condensate and throws it overboard with the cooling exchange water.

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I have a 4.0 Kohler with a 12,000 btu A/C w/electric heat. I use the heat more than the a/c around here. when it does get hot it is well worth it.
Poorsche is correct that you must run the gen at least once a week under load. The only problems that I have had with my genset were carb problems caused from letting it set too long. The fuel passages in those little carbs are oh so small. Just a little stale gas is all it takes to make it run like crap, then have to clean out carb "again".

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I've never run into the carb problem. Is that pretty typical with most gen sets?

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I don't know if it is typical or not. I had a Mercruiser(Generac?) brand 5.0 in my last boat never had a carb problem with it. It would just eat fuel pumps. This Kohler works fine as long as the carb is perfectly clean inside. Just a little crud makes a difference.

Steve Hixson

Re: A/C and Generator
 

Mine ran for two years prefectly--the last failure was caused by crud in fuel passages from stale fuel and in the process it took out the "igniter board" which is a Kawasaki part--they provide Kohler with the engine part of the gen set.

It absolutely has got to be run under load on a regular basis.

There is a place in Tampa that makes and installs refrigeration equipment for grocery stores and also makes an excellent line of stainless steel marine A/C units. They started as an electrical contractor over there and migrated into all the other stuff. Excellent engineering and manufacturing. I'd tell you the name but my "Oldtimers" or CRS has kicked in this afternoon.

Also check a place in St. Augustine called Captains Attic--you find him by doing a search for Sunbrella on eBay. He had several marine a/c units at excellent prices.

Re: A/C and Generator
 

So far, only problem I've had was that it burnt out the impeller. My fault! Ran the boat while the gen was running!

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I run the genset underway all the time. Just don't go over 30 mph or so. The auto shut down kill the gen if it gets hot if or when you forget that it is runnin.

Steve H

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I usually end up running it under 30, then some big CIG boat gives me the fisheye and I end up goin faster!

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I knew it!

Been there

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I am just before adding A/C to my 41'. I am going with 12 volt though. I do not want to add the wait of a generator. The 12 volt system will allow you to run the A/C continuous for 8hrs without recharging. Crank the engine and the alternator will recharge the battery in under an hour. But with the shorepower plugged in you can run it indefinitely. With Gel batteries it only takes two and the total system weighs in when installed, at around 600lbs. I have already seen 2 of them in service and believe they will be the ticket.

Re: A/C and Generator
 

Why do you need to run the generator once a week? Sounds like a good reason to hangout in the boat even if its in the driveway :D

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I've owned boats with generators for over thirty years. The only problem I've encountered with gensets that sit for long periods, is that they will tend to "lope" for a while until they get the "creaks out of their joints".

For Steet, I have to add that a 4kw genset and A/C system is FAR LIGHTER than the 600 pounds he will be adding via the 12v system, and a good chunk of change cheaper also. As far as running a 5k BtUh A/C on nonstop compressor cycle for 8 hours? If it's hot out, you'd better plan to have 8000 Ah of batteries (that would be 75 group 27 batteries, or equivalent, weighing in at approx 2000 pounds). It would take the world's biggest alternator to recharge those bad puppies inside of an hour.

I'm not being critical, but you either need to revisit your math, or please run your combo by a local electrical engineer to verify your thoughts...

I assure you that if people could have A/C, and run it for an 8 hour day in the summer on batteries, only to spend one hour to recharge them - nobody would ever sell gensets...

mc

Re: A/C and Generator
 

The Kohler manual is specific about running genset under load for 30 to 60 minutes a week. I think that's a little much but that's what it says. I didn't follow that regimine and after a while it started the searching routine for a while till it got the condensation or whatever out of the fuel system. THen it became hard to start--then it just wouldn't start. When the mech from Kohler started he had to replace the fule pump, carb, and ultimately the exciter board in the controller. THankfully it was under warranty cause the parts were more than the damned genset.

I was at boat last weekend and it wouldn't start so I'm back to sqaure one.

The real upset is tha Kohler used a Kawasaki lawn mower engine and I've had thos things sit all winter and crank right up using old varnish for fuel.

Must be becasue it's on a boat--

Re: A/C and Generator
 

If your boat doesn't already have one, be sure to install a CO detector in the sleeping areas.
You can't be too careful with carbon monoxide. You can't see or smell it and you go to sleep and never wake up.

Re: A/C and Generator
 

He's pretty much Always right ..... :cool:

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I recently heard about the new Cigarette boats having an AC unit installed which will work off an "Ice" cooler. haven't researched it but from the initial conversation was supposed to be a big hit.

Re: A/C and Generator
 

Some info on DC ... AC .... :cool:

http://www.dcbreeze.com/finding_power.htm


Ice Cooler ..........

http://www.compactappliance.com/xq/J...%3Etwelve+volt

Re: A/C and Generator
 

Tell me more. Is the a/c unit itself 12 volt? BTU? Must be pretty low draw if only two batteries will run it for 8 hours. If you are concerned about weight a small genset and a/c unit would be way under 600lbs.

Steve H

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I just read the stuff that dcBreeze has on the website and a big red flag they raised was humidity. Since you're in S FL you should ask them a liot of questions about the effect of our weather on the system performance. My water excahnged unit creates truly gallons of condensate per day here on the central Florida coast.

Also looked like a lot of hardware to get 10,000 btu's of cooling. Mine is a 35 Formula and the 10K unit keeps it very comfortably cool--but it works to do it. My 10K unit is as small as they come and a single unit---the dc breeze looks like two units that are bigger than my single unit. I don'y have any more space tha is already used so I couldn't even think about that product.

Re: A/C and Generator
 

Interesting website, that dcbreeze place.
600 watts is running pretty efficiently.

Mermaid marine can't do but 750 watts or so, and that's the best I'd seen previously.

So 600 watts for 8 hours? 400 amp-hours? Yeah, that's 5 batteries. 200 pounds. $400 worth of trolling motor batteries.

Not too bad.

I did notice that the "PRICING" part of his website is blank. No prices. Hmm.
And you'll need a $250 100 amp Balmar alternator and voltage regulator.

But it will still take you almost 24 hours to recharge your batteries with a 20 amp shorepower charger. And about 5 1/2 hours to recharge with the alternator on the motor (assuming you are running over 2500rpm that long, as it will take longer if you are idling around).

But I stand corrected. Sounds like you CAN cool your boat on batteries with only a reasonable stash of batteries...

IF you have cool enough sea water to keep the unit in its efficient range.
IF you don NOT OPEN the cabin door hardly at all (to keep moist outside air out of the cabin).
IF 5000 btu is enough for your boat (It's about right for a 35 foot Cig or Formula go-fast style cabin).

A 46 Sea Ray has two 6000 Btu units, and one 12,000 Btu unit...

Re: A/C and Generator
 

Actually I just relayed the information that I was told and have seen it demonstrated myself. The a/c motor is a rewound 3 ph motor that if I am not mistaken only draws a mere 3 amps of power. The a/c will run 8 continous hrs. with only the 2 gel batteries. If they work as well as the manufacturer says, then this will make gensets obselete in performance boats.
They were displayed at the Miami boat show.
I did some research and could not find anything that weighed less. When I said 600+ pounds, that includes the addition of the a/c, wiring, batteries, and battery charger. That is sustanially less than anything else I have found. There may be some out there, but I did not see them in Miami.
(oh course, I am sure I missed a lot there. Too much to see)

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I think the 115V units only weigh 50lbs or less ? and if you use a honda portable it weighs in@ 47lbs .....

Re: A/C and Generator
 

Yeah, Honda portable is around 45 pounds. Very quiet. Must run on swim platform.

Several 4000 - 5000 watt permanent install water cooled USCG marine generators around 200 pounds. Gas ($2,600) or Diesel ($4,500).

Truly hard to beat the Honda portable. $900, 45 pounds, and 2000 watts.
If you want to run the AC while underway, add a $400 Coleman 3kw inverter and a $250 Balmar alternator.

A/C is nice. It's also nice to be able to plug in whatever else you want. Microwave, Hair dryer, laptop charger, 13" tv/vcr, table fans, you name it.

A decent 10" fan that blows decent amount of air (for the sunpad, etc) is $13 at WalMart. A decent 12v fan is $75.

Re: A/C and Generator
 

Finally found the info on the Marine A/C manufacturer in Tampa--it's Marine Comfort Systems by Anchor Manufacturing-- www.coolyourboat.com

Re: A/C and Generator
 

Mcollinstn,

You sure do know some chit. After reading your post, I think I am going to pull my generator. how hard is it to install the inverter and alt.?

Re: A/C and Generator
 

Maybe I didn't make myself very clear. I am a fan of gensets, either portable or permanent.

But I've tried to show the goods and bads of what I consider the 12v setup's benefits or drawbacks to be.

And for some people, any way to get away from a generator may be worth the hassle.

Trouble to install an inverter? Big fat battery cables, a place to mount that receives good airflow, and is not near gas fumes...

Trouble to install a Balmar alt? You got a socket set? Nothing to it.
You'll also need a pretty large shorepower charger to top those batts off after draining them all day..

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I have owned both set ups.

With a 12v system you are consantly worried about the batteries going dead.
When they do go dead, it takes hours at cruise speed to get them back up, even with a twin engine boat and two alternators. Who wants to start up their main engines early in the morning to make a cup of coffe? You may think it won't happen, but it will. Now I have a inverter and a gen set. Best of both worlds. I can use the inverter for small stuff like coffe, micro, and the genset to run hot water or a/c heat. If the batteries go down, just start up the gen and the inverter automatically charges the batteries with a built in 3 stage 75a charger. Was able to off two 4d batteries and put in a 31 deep cycle optima yellow top. My engine room looks much nicer without those cat batteries. Sure the gen is one more item to maintain but so far it has been worth it. I would NEVER go back to a 12v system in a larger boat. Way too many batteries and too many hassles.

Steve Hixson

Re: A/C and Generator
 

I installed a Westerbeke 3.0 BPMG and 12k a/c with reverse cycle heat, the gen weighs only 165 lbs. and runs 2200 rpm. so far I have 220 hours and is still going strong. The only problem I had was I wanted to use the gen underway which led me to enlarge the mushroom pickup to provide more flow at higher speeds. Since there is so much aerated water near the step, we went with a 1-1/2 inch pickup and that solved the problem at any speed.

Re: A/C and Generator
 

two things to be concerned about on a fast boat.

1) genset water pickup.
2) A/C water pickup.

Scoop pickups are best, but can cost a little speed.
Mushroom pickups are worst, but can be made to work okay.
Transom mount pickups are the best. Can be adjusted to provide the best of all worlds.

Re: A/C and Generator
 

A scoop P/U is O.K. for an A/C unit but not for a gen set. A friend of mine found this out the hard way. When under way the scoop forced water past the genset raw water impeller and this in turn forced water through the block into the exhaust riser. If the gen is not running it will flow back into the engine causing hydraulic lock the next time you try to start it. This might not be an issue if your exhaust system flows down hill from the riser to the outlet, but most installs that I have seen it flows up then down.

Steve Hixson

Re: A/C and Generator
 

Yes, it will work just like the heat pump in your house.

Re: A/C and Generator
 

Has anyone heard about the Bay Air A/C? THis is the unit that runs off of the cooler water. It is a 6500 BTU A/C. I just wonder if it works as claimed!

Re: A/C and Generator
 

Troutdozer,

Reverse cycle heat is EXACTLY like a home heat pump. In cool weather (and cool water conditions) it will heat your boat with supply duct air temps approx 20 degrees warmer than the return air temps. If you get to the boat and the cabin temp is 45 degrees, then for the first 20 minutes, your supply air temp will be about 65 degrees, then the next 30 mins, it will be 85 degrees. Probably will take 45 mins for the cabin to reach the temp you desire.

If the water temp is COLD, then the unit will be far less efficient. Probably a ten degree differential. And once the water temp goes below 40 degrees, the reverse cycle will probably stop working altogether (no discernable heat from the unit).

The only reason I mention this is because you live in an area that can get damn cold. Reverse cycle is great for boating in cool weather, but not cold weather.

Resistance heat (either installed ON the unit, or by means of a $14 WalMart space heater) provides instant reliable heat in the coldest of weather...

Reverse cycle adds about $100 to the cost of a unit. Well worth it as long as you know its limitations. A space heater is your best bargain for use when it is truly cold out.

Re: A/C and Generator
 

You got it.
Overnight usage, reverse cycle heat is actually the most comfortable heat you can have. Encourages even temps throughout the cabin, because it adjusts temps gradually. For quick heat, the cheap space heater is the best bet.

Gotta keep those wives warm. Otherwise their monks will freeze up. And a stabbin cabin is no place for a petrified monk.

cheers.
mc

Sir,

The company in Tampa you mentioned was Anchor Manufacturing, they are out of business sadly! I was the designer of the Marine Comfort Products for them and the Engineer.

Mike

Yes it is true but how do you keep the pick up down that deep in a running current or if the waters not that deep your out of luck! As for 6,500 Btu's I would love to see the math on that calculation

I have had customers trying to do this with batteries and It doesn't work also 5,000 Btu's is not much AC.
Cabin Length x width x height x 11 is fairly accurate in calculating heat load

We have a unit that might fit your needs, one is 4000 btu and one is 6000 btu.http://www.coldmarineair.com