Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

What cam would you recommend for 454 (330hp) Gen V with std bottom end, L-29 Vortec heads, Edelbrock Performer intake/ Holley 300-42, Edelbrock 750cfm 1410 Marine, K&N 9" air filter and complete MSD marine ignition? The exhaust manifolds are stock with this kind of stainless elbows. I have not decided if i'm going to use dry or wet exhaust but probably dry!

The heads take a 540 lift with these springs, I don't really want to change the springs if possible.

I am not going to rev the engine past 5000-5100rpm, since I don't want to lose too much reliability.

It is going to be fed with 95octane.

I would be really pleased if I could reach 450hp.

The boat is a V-hull 24x7,3ft 3300bls. It maxed at near 60mph with a Mirage Plus 27P at 3800rpm with the 330 and a bad, badly adjusted carb.


(A friend of mine recommended this camshaft)

Thanks

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

That would be a good cam if you use the long risers. Dry exhaust would not be necessary.
If you buy stock Vortec heads, they will need to be machine for that much lift though.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

I used the same cam in a warmed over 454mag. Its available in kit form with lifters also and bargain priced. It is almost the same cam as the 420 and 525SC.
Somebody else on the board used it also on a full rebuild and it dynoed right around 425hp. That was with rect port heads.

kit part # is 134242

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

I used a 228/235 @ .050, .540" lift on a similar 454 and it worked great. We used with stock merc manifolds and didn't get any water from reversion. The cam was ground on a 112+4.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Cranes 132561 was the High end flat tappet that mecruiser
used on the Gen IV, V 400, 420, 525sc..... Shouldn't have
any reversion with those risers.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Now I have bought the L-29 Vortecs. They have been mounted but that engine was never fired, so the heads are brand new. :drink:

So the 134242 kit with cam and lifters is what you guys recommends if I would like to reach 420-450hp and about 5000rpm?!

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Probably want to spin it to 5200-5400. Mine was still making good power up to 5400rpms. It fell off after that.
You should reach your hp goals without a problem.

Here's the old thread with dyno results and particulars also

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=25932

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

If the engine is the stock 454 with small rods, cast pistons and crank you do NOT want to spin it past 5000 RPM. If that is the case running a smaller cam will probably work better, since you can't turn the RPM to benefit from the larger cam. Shoot for making a lot of torque and keep the RPM down so it will live.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Let's put it this way then:

The heads take a 540 lift with these springs, I don't really want to change the springs if possible.

I am not going to rev the engine past 5000rpm, since I don't want to lose too much reliability.

It is going to be fed with 95octane.

I would be really pleased if I could reach 450hp.


Does this change any of your previous opinions in cam selection?!

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

GM High Performance has a cam 228°/238°, .540/.540, 114LSA...
You can probably use the Gen V/GenVI non-adjust rockers too.
I doubt you will get 450HP out of it but 400+HP is likely.
Good Luck! :drink:

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

The 95 octane will actually hurt performance. It won't burn as completely.

What do you mean by stock bottom end??? Stock 454Mag or 7.4????

Reving past 5000 rpms will not cause reliability issues as long as the engine has the right parts.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

It's a 7,4 330hp.

The 95 is the lowest octane here in Sweden, so it's pretty hard to use anything lower than that. We got 95, 96 and 98 octane in the pumps...

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Is there anything else that might increase the hp, like a stub stack or carb spacer etc?! :rolleyes:

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

I think the rating is measured differently in Europe. I don't think the octane rating is comparable to US octane #'s.

With the 330 bottom, I wouldn't turn it to 5400 either but I would run it to 5000-5100.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Those are minimal and only a dyno will tell for sure.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Copied from howstuffworks.com:
"Eighty-seven-octane gasoline is gasoline that contains 87-percent octane and 13-percent heptane (or some other combination of fuels that has the same performance of the 87/13 combination of octane/heptane)."

The difference between 95 octane in the US and 95 octane in Sweden can't be that significant, if the text is correct. :evilb:

But we also pay ~$5,5/gallon or $1.47/liter :mad:

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Do you still think the 241 cam is the one to use?!

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

I don't know for sure if its the "best" one, but it will certainly work. I just don't know enough about the overall combo that you have with the comp ratio and vortec heads.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Griff,
With the flat tops in a 330 and the Vortec heads, the CR will be around 9:1. The heads are "large" oval port but they have small valves.
I think the crane 241 cam is a reasonable choice but the heads may require some work for that much lift.
Tomas,
If it were me, I would go with a cam that did not require machine work on the heads.
The Vortec heads come with wimpy single valve springs and rotators.
A bigger than stock cam will require stronger springs and spacers in place of the rotators.
Also, If you use a cam from other than GM, you will need to change from the non-adjust rocker system.
It's all a matter of how much $$ you want to spend... :drink:

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Octane IS measured differently in the US than Europe.

http://www.type2.com/bartnik/octane.htm

Your 95 octane = 91 US Octane

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

I filled in a cam selection form on cranecams.com and got this cam (134561) recommended...

It doesn't seem to fit at all in my opinion :mad:

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

I don't see it on the cam card, but, isn't the 561 a roller cam?

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

The roller is the 651 cam. I've heard of the 561 being used but It has a rough idle and reverts a lot of water. I wouldn't use it.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

I just went back to the Crane web site.They have two cams that might be confusing. The 132561 is the old 420HP cam and is an excellent choice for a 454. The 134561 is the longer duration one that I menioned above. Stay away from it.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

A 236*/246* duration cam is A LOT of cam for a 454cid marine engine. I think you will find yourself being very disappointed with a cam that size for a 454 marine application.

Obviously you can do as you please, but a Comp Cams 218*/226* duration cam would be a much better choice. My cousin ran this cam in his 454's and with 8.6 comp ratio it made 461hp @5100rpm and 510 foot pounds of torque on the dyno. :)

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Yes, but that was the cam that Cranecams recommended... Perhaps they ment the 132561 cam and not 134561 as PatriYacht said. It makes sense anyway.

What setup did he have, was it anything like mine? Besides that my cr will end up at ~9:1?

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Is there any other web based cam selection forms besides the one on Crane Cams? Couldn't find any at Comp Cams, Isky or Lunati Cams.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Tomas, The cams my cousin had were hydraulic flat tappet cams. Other components of his engines were dual plane intake manifolds, Holley 800cfm carbs, 8.6 comp ratio, and GM large oval port heads which had been bowl/pocket ported and larger stainless 2.19" intake, and 1.85" exhaust valves installed by JimV. The GM heads were kind of a semi-open chamber head---not something you normally see in performance engines.

He is still using cast pistons and cast cranks with 2-bolt main blocks. We chose those cam specs to keep the power at right around 5000-5100rpm because of the cast pistons and stock rod bolts.

The engines were dyno'd with tubular dyno headers on Tom Earhart's dyno here in Michigan, however my cousin runs his engines with a GIL aftermarket exhaust manifolds and DRY stainless one piece pipes. One piece meaning the collector/elbow are all stainless and incorporated into the tailpipe. The GIL exhaust system will decrease the power output of the engines by something around 20-25hp because they are not as efficient as the tubular dyno headers.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

That sounds kind of like my setup!
Isn't the vortec head also kind of semi open chamered?

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Too big of a cam for a 454 for sure, unless you are gonna spin it to 5800+ rpms. It will also probably have reversion.

The original cam you had picked out will make more torque and hp below 5000rpms.

The one Kamma recommended will also work well and have even more torque in the lower+midrange. Might loose a few hp on the top.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Tomas, I would recommend crane 133801 w/ 222`/234` at .050 and .529"/ .525" lift. It made 450hp@4700rpm, and
stayed flat up 5500rpm. My engine was with 269cc Merlin ovalport heads, 9:1 CR, RPM intake and BG750dp.So I think you would get 425hp to 450hp. It took my boat from 330hp`s 47 knots to 55,5 knots. But as we all know, things are changing in the long, cold winter time of north. In goes hyd.roller cam, RPM Air-Gap, and BG850dp + drive is moving
up at least an inch or two, waiting for summer...in eastern
neighbour of you.

Pelle

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

I believe the Vortec heads are much more efficient than the old junk GM heads my cousin has/uses, but that is what he was stuck with at the time and he wanted to make the best of what he had. I only brought his heads up in conversation to show you that with a little bowl/pocket porting, and valve size increase that even they could be a decent running head for what they were----and they did fine for what he was after.

My cousin was using a GIL DRY aftermarket exhaust system could have easily have gone with a larger camshaft close to what Griff has suggested----I was thinking more something like a 222*/230* on either 110* or 112* lobes. However, my cousin wanted to run the boat at about 5000 to 5100rpm tops because of the cast pistons and stock rod bolts and he was advised not to spin the engines over that RPM level with those parts. As it turns out the engines made peak power at 5100rpm and a TON of torque 510 lbs from 3600-5000rpm. I should also mention that he also had the cylinders bore notched which I believe has an advantage. You could run the larger 222*/230* cam if the engines were going to be used with a decent aftermarket exhaust system, but would stick with the 218*/226* cam (even as Sutphen30 has agreed to) if a stock Merc exhaust system is going to be used on the engine.

That's just my .02---it's not set in stone, but I will admit, when deciding on a camshaft selection I tend to like or "errr" on the smaller side of duration-----but not too dang small...ya hear me son??? ;) :D :D :D

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Cam 1
Cam 2
Cam 3
Cam 4
Cam 5

Have I forgotten some of your recommendations?

Which one should I go with then? :eek: There are getting a slight too many to choose from now... :rolleyes:
Cam 1,2 and 5 are the ones I think could work fine, but since I have really bad knowledge about this I might be completely wrong too... What does KAAMA think of pelle's suggestion (cam 5 - 133801)

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

No one like GM high performance stuff?
There are 3 cams in the GM HP catalog that would also work...

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Is this one of them?

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

Honestly I don't really know. I bought the engine this summer and never got the old carb to work the way it should.

Cruise rpm: perhaps around 3500?!

I just filled in some new info in my first post:

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

No Tomas, That is a roller cam...

The ones I am referring to are something like this:
Gen V 454HO cam 220°/220°, .500/.500, 114°LSA
Second- 218°/228°, .500/.500, 114°LSA
Third- 228°/238°, .540/.540, 114°LSA
Each of these cams will make more power than your stock 330HP cam.
A buddy of mine put the 218/228 in his 454mag last year and she pulls nice up to about 5300rpm.

Tomas,
If you use an aftermarket cam you will need to go to an adjustable rocker setup. Not a big deal, just more parts and $$. Any of these cams are going to require new valve spring and rotator eliminators...
Good Luck with your project. :drink:

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

If you're going to run 4000 rpm or more for periods of time like poker runs, roller rockers are a good reliability upgrade. I've seen stamped rockers fail. Merc put them on 420hp and above.

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

:p sorry...

What is the difference between a GM cam and aftermarket ones then? What parts do I need, to be able to use a aftermarket cam?

Re: Recommendations in selecting camshaft
 

What makes the rockers fail? If the rockers are a fresh set, shouldn't they hold for some longer 4000+rpm runs?

This upcoming summer there is actually a nice Pokerrun taking place here in Stockholm. It's about 80miles long and at 35 of them there is real offshore with no sight of land... They are planning for 40-50 boats to participate. :evilb:

It would be nice if the engine would last for 80 miles without failing... But as most of us know - take it cool and it will last!