Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Bingo....... When The race organizations start putting weight in Fountains...to slow them down..... come see me.

It amazes me that anyone who is paying attention .....and understands what they are seeing race after race with their own eyes... can't see the obvious superiority of the Skater over any other monohull. It handles better....it's faster... and it's more predictable..... So much so that it is penalized with added weight......

Do the math..... Reggie had his race boats built by Peter... so that he could learn how to do it..... so have many others. Peter designed his boat from scratch.... Reggie "updated" the old Excalibur Executioner.....

If Peter is the teacher....and he is.... and a true designer originator.... and he is.... You have to go with his hull.

As to the teams......... I think the world of Joe and Pete.... and if they were in the Skater.... they'd be untouchable.

So , as I said...... do the math.

T2x

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Love To See Them In A Skater Don't Think Reggie Would Ever Let Peter And Joe Go. Friend Of Mine Drove For Both Fountain And Skater.an Said The Skater Is As Good As It Gets. But The Fountain Is Not Far Behind. Adding Weight Should Make The Boat Even Better In The Rough.

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Never drove a Skater, tell ya what, after running that Wazzup boat for all these years, That Fountain is on rails. Flat out no tabs, no brakes, no fear, no brains............gotta love it. Smitty

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

WC,
I think you need to get a video from FreezeFrame of last year's Key West World Championship race.

I'll be the first to admit that I forget a lot of things. But one thing does stick in my mind about Spiderman last year.

The Offshore leg that you describe, and I personally know it well with the racing I have done, it is a WALL when you come around that turn one. :eek:
But the one thing that stuck in my mind watching Spiderman run last year in Key West was how that was the only boat without it's nose up in the air on that offshore leg.
Sure they flew along with everyone else, but they stood out because of how level they ran. And If I recall, that boat was doing very well in the races till Sunday...
That boat probably runs with the most wetted surface out of all of the competitors, but it was still in the lead pack!
That's what you call engineering!
My hat is off to Peter for the continued efforts he puts into his "OWN" designs.....

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

please go and look at last year in Key west.
If i remember, I saw Micckosukee had the lead Spiderman caught them and then David Knight ( now wazzup) ran them down the whole back leg and came level with them but then you turn into the flat water again, and yeah he had speed. Race 3
In race one, David knight was faster on the first straight but we all know if you turn like they did.....OOOPs
Ohhh i've been in the skater Fountains and they are harsh in rough seas. Nothing like the Fountains now.
Im not bashing anybody, but having raced and currently race in the new 40' Fountain ( sister to Instigator). This boat is unreal in any water.
I know what speeds Lil reggie is running and he beat Spiderman this past weekend. And I know what instigator is running, on the race course now, and I think he would beat him even in the flat.
I also think... give Wazzup another race and they will too.
But please... I have nothing against them... at all!!!!
They are good guys.

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Let's not forget that they went a bit out of the way on one of their laps which was additional time they had to make up.

I saw the computer replay after the race and perhaps that was when it may have looked like everyone caught them in the rough. They made a dog leg heading out for turn one, I think it was on the second lap.

What was so wrong with the Instigator boat that was in Key West that they decided to make it a pleasure/poker run boat instead of racing it again? :confused:

I am sure the guys are getting their Fountains dialed in. Once they do, will they let Spiderman take out the extra 750 pound disadvantage? :D Then we can see who really comes out on top! :drink:

One side note: I was only there on the weekend, so forgive me for not knowing anything first hand what they ran like during the week.... ;)

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

wcmarine,

While I agree with most of your statements, take away the weight penalty and none of those Fountains stand a chance against Spiderman. Reggie builds a first class V Hull and you can not take that away from him but a Skater his boats will never be. Peter and staff at Douglas Marine's craftmanship and layup techniques are far more superior then the rest of the competition PERIOD!!!!!!!!

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

When one has to add weight to slow the boat down in order for the competition to catch up, then that clearly tells me who's hull design is the most effecient.

I have to agree with DPT.

I have crawled inside a Skater from the tip of the bow all the way to the stern. Took pics too!
I got a look at the Fountain as far as the engine compartment and I needed to look no further... Just not in the same league as far as lamination goes. As long as they stay together, that's what matters to some. I like my glass to look nice though... :drink:

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

I think we did! Wasn't it in Key West in 2001? :eek:

"Reggie Fountain, flip and crash his Fountain F2-76 towards the end of the race. Reggie and his driver, son Reggie III, were trapped upside down underwater when he could not get his canopy open right away. Although they escaped injury, their boat was destroyed, and they were out of the race."

Becareful out there Smitty! Those guys were real lucky....

Don't end up with a false sense of security just because you have a lid! ;)

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Hey Guys...lets remember something....

Last year Todd W. was running that boat and had the most knowledge and seat time in that Skater....
I think we all can agree that Todd can run a boat and dial one in...

Lets remember also this is a new Skater with the deck cut down and better visabilty. I would hope if you build a newer boat you make the changes to make it faster.

The only Fountain's that really gave Spiderman a run was

Waazoo....the first time ever in a SV.
and Little R and Lute....and isn't that the boat that was origanlly rigged for the Kilo with big power and 6's and they are now getting it dailed in....
Spiderman is a fast boat period....
But how many new SV's are racing in OSS this year.
1 Switch-Boat org. built for big power and is on its 3 season...and has gone over once...Great boat with some great guys in it.
2. Twisted Metal- a pretty new team with little SV experiance..and have done a great job this year.
3 Black P. - I think this boat is 3 or 4 years old...has a lot of races on it.
4.Lightning Strikes ( sorry about the org name )- Boat did good last year...won the Worlds by consistancey..not by being up in front all 3 races...Boat also was in a bad collision....Great guys in the boat.
5. and Little R. which I talked in the beginning.

SBI- There are a number of new boats that were built for this year...also you have teams racing SV for years and have 10+years racing in V's that go a hell of a lot faster then today....
Thats why this is a good question between Instigotor and Spiderman and a few other SV's
Just because one boat dominates in one Organization with 6 or 7 other boats dosn't always mean its the best out there against all 20+ SV's.
Do I agree with the 750lbs added to S.M., with the current boats he is running against....yes to make it fair for the boat in that Organization.....
But take out the 750lbs and have them run against some of the other boats mention on here in both ruff and calm water....and I don't think you will see any team dominating that class....

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Tell ya what, to me, I dont know who's the best or who's the fastest. But, we ran right on their but, in a 4 year old boat that is already 300 lbs over weight. Never thought we would even be in that game, so didn't even consider set up. We filled the fuel and went for a ride. Long story short we finished up with 70 extra gallons 400lbs and 300 lbs over weight and ran pretty dam close to the same speeds. We have found more speed since. Yea Skater builds a hell of a boat, dont count out the beak boyz. I am seeing RED. Smitty

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Reggie was stuck but there was never any problems. The hatch was sealed so good that it caused a vacuum and the lid wouldnt open so they just had to wait until water came in. But divers were there and they were sat in there waiting. Still scary but never life threatening!!!!

Its an awful shame that OSS and Sbi are having seperate worlds. What a kick ass race SV would be. Well.....it still will be in Key west!!

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Chunks is correct. Period... Mark K & I and also Sammy Dile and I have testest the Skater/SPIDERMAN 399 SuperVee in 3' to 4' seas and I can tell you and promise you, that it is SUPERIOR, period!!! Did any of you see Ft. Myers? How far out front was it? And in 2'-4' and it was holding it's own with the Super Cats'... Fountain builds a GREAT boat, no doubt!!! Skater/Peter H./T. Welling, build the BEST boat! :eek:

Ben there done, drove that... :D

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Skater, Peter H. and Todd Welling mentioned in the same sentence...............................are you already sucking up for 2006? :rolleyes:

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

mark not rooling eyes at you , jest that thir is no boat BUT a skater, and every body out to sell thir lesser boat and buy a skater , the onily boat in the world. yea right :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

beek for life

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

mark i was not rooling eyes at you . but from this thred there is onily one boat in the world and it is a skater and every thing elese is a poj . how maney world champisonships does the 399 have 0 ! .

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

FeverMike,

I seen a few Fountains in SV come out at 8075 to 8120lbs,
There min. wieght is 8000lbs....as far as the Skater don't know....but now with the added wieght it should have to be 8750lbs

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

In ft. Myers.......But who was he in front of???
Not Instigator.....Not Wazzup.......not micckosukee......not Fountain Mercury.......Not rodriguez......Not Muscle......
This is getting a little OTT. We are obviously ( this year) never going to know. The Skater 399 is hell of a boat...........Fountains are fantastic.....
Lets hope for some type of miracle that we will see them.....until then.......
.... just keep in mind the two sister boats to Instigator that have been behind curtains for a while......!!!...

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Peter and Joe are great but I have to go with Spiderman.Ken and Scott passed most Cat Lights in Ft.Meyers even when starting in different starts.Fast boat and great team.Welling,great set up man.

Wil

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

In spite of the spelling.......

I think you're starting to get it.

The biggest impediment to objectivity in boat endorsements .... is owning a particular hull. Invariably that renders you blind to another boat's ability.

To me "being right on somebodies butt"...... means.....you're behind him.....

Even if the guy in second is playing flat out catch up.... is the guy in the lead...automatically at his full speed?

I watched Smitty and son drive at 10/10th's for most of St. Clair.... and I applaud the effort.... but...they put that Fountain everywhere but on its hatch...and had some hairy, slippery, oversteering adventures in some turns to prove it...All of this while trying to catch a boat that was ..... as Smitty put's it..... "On Rails". The Skater was level, cutting very predictable turning arcs... relaxing to drive..and well behaved throughout the race..... as compared to the leaping, frothing, clawing, and wheel wrenching going on behind them.

Look at the whole picture........ If someone ever cranks that Skater up to its max potential........or if more than one ever races........ ( you need numbers to dominate a class...ask Reggie)

Do the Math......

T2x

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Yea but that was my first race..............I been practcin. We be a few miles an hour faster now. And 500 lbs lighter. With a raised X. Oh not supposed to say that. I'm gonna getcha. 72 hrs worth of testing in two weeks. ( who is that masked man)

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

There was a Fountain that finished 2nd in St. Clair (#76). It hopped around a little too, there was some oversteer in it as well. It is also getting better. I have first hand information.

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

SMITTY !!! Do it Jersey Boys style...SHOW N TELL !! Smitty n Sticks for President :drink: :drink:

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

there are a few quotes that come to mind...Loose is fast and on the edge of outta control, if your not living on the edge your takin up to much space, and last but not least !! HELL HATH NO FURY LIKE THE FAMILY !!

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

If two boats are racing....... at equal speed

and one is forced to run "loose and fast" (10/10ths)...... and the other is at optimum racing set up (8/10ths).

The smart racer takes the second.

Testosterone drives the first.

I've been in both situations

But as I got older and smarter.........

Do the math.

There is too much emphasis on bravado today.....and too little on skill and wisdom. The wise racer has a long, productive and successful career. Pure aggression tends to burn out quicker....

Remember hot dogs are a snack food...not a full course meal.

T2x

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Hey....Destin has been cancelled.... Everyone to NYC..???? Spiderman.....Pier 57......L J's......Switch...fury.....
What a race course to figure this one out..... Nice and flat at the start......and really rough at the end!!!
This thread could be put to bed ( like the ryhme).

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Sorry to dissapoint Rich. i think you will see an entire different scenerio this time. we ran loose only to find out the boat is faster tight. Pulled out overall weight. And put weight forward. Night and day. Lute, great run in OB. Guess I need a rematch. Cant believe that 42 is that fast. See ya Smitty PS Rich we ran 56 races in the old boat balls to the wall. If youre looking for us to burn out, wrong crew. No wisdom. Sheer desire.

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Smitty..... ya know I luv ya.......

But, there's an old joke about an old bull and young bull.....

You know the one that ends......" Let's Walk down the hill and" .....etc etc

I want to see you around for a long time.........and I believe you will be....... but the odds are so much better with the hull surface on the water.....and the deck on top.

You have my best wishes........

Still........

you might......

Buy a Skater................. :p

T2x

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

I have a Skater. Wont take my abuse, so I pleasure boat it. Not so sure the Fountain is going to either. The only boat I cant break is that OLD Viper. Dam thing wont quit. Something to be said for that old school layup. love you too Rich. just havin some fun Smitty

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Smitty, glad to see how much you like our old 15 boat. Won a lot of races in that boat. As far as Key West in 04 we did pass the Skater like it was tied to a tree on the back side. Would have pure and simple out ran him had he not pushed us 3/4 of a mile inside of the 1st turn on the first lap. By the way he was penalized for the miscue. Skater builds a great boat but as once said on this post, how many races against REAL competition has it won? Scott and Ken are great guys and great competitors and it will be great to see them at New York. How about it guys. By the way do not forget that Instigator is now dialed in and won the last two SBI events. P/C buy almost 3 MILES.

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Well lets see whose the fastest in Texas, Lookout for the new PIER 57 boat.

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Pier57,

Is Reggie JR and Mike Seebold going to be in this boat or someone else???????? See you in Corpus!!!!!!!

:drink: :drink: :drink:

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Reggies ridin with Lute and Michael is runnin new Rio Roses boat.

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

Reggie III and Lute will be running the new Pier 57 boat that is extremely fast in testing here at Lake Pickwick. Reggie III and Gus(crew chief) have been working extremely hard and the boat is really fast.(114mph+)Lookout for us in Corpus!

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

every boat has its pluses and minuses, but one thing for sure there all ways trying to catch the fountain :rolleyes:

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

From a very reliable source, I hear you will have some company... :cool:

That's right OSO'ers!!!!

Instigator vs Spiderman will happen in Corpus Christi at the OSS race...

Let's get it on!!!! :drink: :drink: :drink:

http://www.offshoresuperseries.com/w...manwidenew.jpg

http://images.snapfish.com/344%3B4%3...A47%3A52ot1lsi

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

:cool: :cool:

Re: Instigator or Spiderman?
 

This should be a great race. Any other super vees coming over?