Isnt it funny?
 

A good friend of mine with the same boat as mine goes to the NYC race to enter his 32 Activator in P3 class and gets a hard time from the tech officials.They first think his boat is my boat and they give him the total business of prop pitch,gear ratio,compression ETC.[By the way he called me to thank me :D ]and finally let him race in P3.I rode in his boat before the race and all i could get was 88 on GPS race ready.He said at the start the yellow Cat went by him at least by 10 MPH when he was going 89 on GPS.Isnt it funny that the first place boat[yellow cat] has a connection to a tech official?I dont want to stir up some sh1t on here,but this is the reason that myself,BJ and a handful of other racers dont race anymore.If you think i am out of line, please express your views and rip me a new A-hole.If i am wrong i am sorry.Just want some feedback if someone else felt the same thing.This section doesnt need more bull sh1t. :(

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

I have heard the same complants from other racers. The only thing I will say is that Richie Dancision does not play favorites. If the prop calc = P3 then thats where they belong. On the other hand..... it is a former c-class boat....maybe they changed the engines...i dunno.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

I raced in C-class ;)

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If they have the same C class engines from way back when, then who the hell built them because they have last forever........

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

All I can say is Lou ran a hell of a race. Good People, Stand Up with a smile on his face always. We all get the Prop Cal. thing, some boats are better in rough water and some better in calm.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

TO JC performance, I throttled that big yellow cat for 7 years. I could never get the boat to go over 90 mph no matter what I did. It is a very good rough water boat with excellent accelaration though. The rules for P 3 class says that you can go up to 92 mph based on your prop. calcs. That boat fits right in that class. The great thing about that boat is that is runs the same in rough water during race conditions as it does testing. Many boats do not do that. This kind of racing is all about acceleration not top end speed.
I hope this post will set you straight about the classes and rules. Rich D doesn't show any favirites to anybody. He knows that boat and how fast it goes. By the way, they are the same engines from way back when. They are 9.5 comp. single ram intakes nothing special inside. Probable why they lasted so long. Gary H. from B and G marine built them. I ran them for over 30 races and I think Gary ran them the last 2 races.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Looking forward in racing against Rolling Thunder in the near future, nothing like great competition.

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I thought Rolling Thunder won a bunch of races in C class back then! Are you telling me that that class was only going 90MPH? I remember it racing R&R,Muller,Instigator and some other pretty fast boats then. Were they all only going 90 MPH? I thought that was a 110-120 MPH class.
MD :eek:

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

120 mph back then was an open class boat called Labbats Beer, an APACHE cat throttled By Lorne Liebel. Moreover, that was one of the fastest cats in open class and it did 120 mph in Marathan. C class was a diffrent class John Tomilson drove a similiar cat like Rolling Thunder with Manny Fernandez throttling and it did about 105 mph. Those boats are very heavy and one person who knows them best is Bill Gazell, he throttled Rolling Thunder.......My friend owns the old C class world champion boat American Dream which is getting rigged for Poker runs, darn it. It has the original motors that have been freshened by Mesa Balancing 555 ci 750 hp motors on number 4 drives.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

I raced in Armed and Dangerous and went up against Rolling Thunder many times.I can assure you the boat is faster than 92 MPH.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Well guys,It is what it is in P class and its not going to change for a while. This is exactly why I prefer to race in a spec class. There are no excuses if you get your a$$ kicked!
! Remember P should stand for pleasure If you expect anything more than you should move up to a spec class. If you want rules you know where you have to go if your serious
MD

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Got any 525s laying around? :evilb: :D

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

:D :drink:

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Although I'm still fairly new to racing and do enjoy racing in a P class, what concerns me about moving to a spec class is how the fastest boats seem to be penalized. Take the post about Instigator and Spiderman for example....adding 750 lbs "penalty" to Spiderman? It would seem that if Spiderman (Skater) is the one to beat, then the other teams (manufacturers) need to go back to the drawing board.

Maybe someone could explain to me how some spec class boats follow the rules to the T then are penalized because they're faster than anyone else in the class? I would hope that if you follow the rules, you should not be penalized...whether in a spec or P class.

Bottom line...each class has it's pros and cons...find a class that suits your desires (and budget) and get out there and race!

BTW...I'm serious about my racing. :D

Sean

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

It is sort of like Nascar, I hate to use that analogy, but when say chevy has a dominating car they find a way to slow it down, or the rest of the pack to catch up. this is to have a more captive audience. and draw on the suspense of who will win.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

TGOR,
In our class in "06" (OSSV), we have all agreed to a maximum gear ratio, regardless of the type of drive, of 1.50:1.

In my opinion, I think this will help even things up, and Spiderman can drop the weight back off.

Ray, Fury #88.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Sean, The question to me would be if you did your homework and you were within all the rules and you could kick butt why would you show all your cards and whip on the rest of the fleet knowing you might in-cure a weight penalty for the rest of the season? :rolleyes:
Also I know you are very serious about racing your P5 boat and seem to be OK with the rules. Racing in P class is (PLEASURABLE) for you. Good luck with the rest of your season.
MD

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Here we go again we continue to bash one another again on every frickin issue. Who here hasnt raced in a open cockpit boat at one point or another in P class and Local classes in their racing careers. Lets respect one another because you never know who will be in turn 1 one day. If P class racing isnt serious then ask Bruce Seroff, Smitty, Augie, Pitman Photo, Kevin from Outlaw, Bill Gazell and myself how much money is spent in motors, drives etc to make a $1000.00 purse race.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Amen, Amen & Amen. I have raced just about every class that offshore class racing ever had. To me, P class racing is the hardest. The reason is that you have to be able to beat the other boats without going over your speed classification. P class rules say you can go up to 7 mph over your avg. speed. Try it sometime, see it you break out.
As far as the money spent on your boat, there isn't any difference in the cost. The only saving is going less miles per race, less of an entry fee but less winnings that the other classes. Nobody is getting rich racing, heck I've been doing it so long just for the love of racing and meeting folks from every walk of life from the super rich to the guys just trying to start their careers. I have to say it's been an interesting 30 plus years, and we're still having fun. That was a great post Albert, see you in Deerfield Beach.
Let's all have some fun, after all when the fun stops so does your racing.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

This thread is getting way off topic. it was Directed toward one boat's actual speed to why P-class is a serious class.

So....I'll add my 2 cents :drink:

I think P-class is, and always be an important part of racing in one form or another. Yes, some P-class racers do take it seriously (very seriously). And they should. As Albert said, we dump just as much, if not more money into these boats. For what? The joy and excitement of competition. Certainly not the payout.
There are many differences between P-class and Spec class. But we are all equally passionate about what we do.
Randy has always told me, if i had bought a boat with a blue motor in it, at the start, I would still be at that boat with little money out of pocket. And I agree 100%. With all the blown motors and drives that I sustained, I could be in an SVL two times over.
But, we cant see into the future and we dont know where we will be in years to come.
As a P-class racer, and also a Spec class racer I can honestly say, If I had 100K to plop down on a F-1 or 150k on a SVL, I would. But I, as many of you, dont have that kind of ching. So, we work with what we have and make the best of it. It may cost more over time, but its the only way we can afford it. We take it seriously and we do what ever we have to, to be competitive. In P-class, we can increase or decrease power to fit in a class. While spec classes have to work with certain criteria to make their spec motors and boats perform at peak, without being penalized. Both equally time consuming.

If P-class was non existant, I would have never gotten the opportunity to get the taste, and eventual addiction of offshore racing. I may also have a 1/2 million dollar house (thanks Smitty :( )


bottom line ..we need P class. We only need a more efficient and accurate way to monitor speeds, to keep it fair.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Well I guess OPA is just a "PLEASURE" group then..... when is the next OPA poker run???

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

The OPA guys are some of the most passionate offshore guys I know.

and eventually, in years to come, most, if not all of them will end up in a spec class boat. I guarantee that.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Thats my point though Bruce...... its an insult to the guys tha race P class. Whether or not you run a spec boat has absolutely no bearing on your dedication and passion for racing. P class racers are no less "racers" than spec racers......

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Agreed.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Saturday September 24, the day before the OPA race- we like to give everyone something to do :D

Oh, and Randy, I know that you prefer to run SVL and get away from all the speed issues in P class, but damn, don't throw stones at all the people that are just trying to race or have a race just for the sake of the competition. Everybody races where they can, or where they want, or where they have to. Be happy with that. Every race, and every racer, and every volunteer helps the sport move forward, maybe to the cliff, maybe to the mountaintop. Applaud them all.

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Let me clear something up. There are TWO "Rolling Thunder" yellow cats. The boat that use to run "C Class" with Armed and Dangerous is not the same boat that is racing today. That boat (33' Baja) is now a pleasure boat.

The boat that is racing today is a 35' Jaguar. I was there the day they tested the Rolling Thunder Too before the Ortley Beach Race and they saw 89mph on GPS.

The motors that are in the boat are the same one's they have used for years. Gary from B & G Marine builds them and they last.

LS JR.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Well since my name got thrown in here. Bruce, perfect. Randy,as usual never gets it. Here ya go. So far I have run 4 races in my SV. All of them bored me to tears. Yes it is safer, but the problem is once the pack spreads out there is no more power to catch anyone and you are on your own. Like St Clair and NYC. My old boat scares me to death all the way around the coarse. I would give anything to rerun Miami and Ft laudedale with Albert and Frank. And if you think that was pleasure........Randy get in I will cure your boat racing addiction. Smitty PS almost forgot we out ran all the spec classes that day.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

I think the point of this thread is that the current P-Class format and the "rules" governing class placement need to be be evaluated.Bracket racing works for drag cars;they compete on a precisely measured; straight, flat, one eight or one quater mile strip of asphalt.Offshore race boats on the other hand, compete on courses of varying length,shape and conditions(open ocean,bay,river, and even lakes!).Top speeds and average lap speeds vary greatly for every boat based on this. A boat that may run well below its bracket speed for one race; could easily breakout at another race.The end result of this is classes where boats are often at a distinct competitive disadvantage.The results of the P-Class races over the last few years validate this.After all, with the controversey over top speed,average lap speed,breakout speeds,course length etc..and so on, how can anyone think this system is working?
And, the P-Class fleet is way down from years past.Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve the current class structure and criteria for class placement?

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Mark you are correct. But I see as many problems with the spec class. There are always variations that you cannot account for. For instance. SVL allows certain boats a weight advantage to catch up with the fleet, While SV adds weight to Slow certain boats down. All in the name of parity. If we were a true IROC series where all the boats were identicle. Teams would then find a way to cheat to win. Moral of the story.........It Is What It Is. Stap up hold on and Party hardy. I guess I should have left the Party part out. That could be associated with Pleasure

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Smitty,
I see your point as well.I just look back at the P3 Class in Key West last year;we won the first two days simply because we had the best boat for the conditions period.As fun as it was, I dont think we out throttled or out drove anybody in order to win.Was it fair that we were racing against twin engine open cockpit vees,single engine canopied vees, and twin engine outboard cats?Everyone ran hard, and I totally respect them for that, but I also would have understood if someone questioned that we were placed in the same class as them.I guess it really is what it is.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

I am new to this, but I certainly see the arrogance of some....I too had a lot of PLEASURE running in MIami and Ft. Lauderdale against Wazzup. If anyone thinks we weren't serious about racing in those races,they should have seen the bruising to our bodies, our equipment and our bank accounts. Oh, and they can also look at the Freeze Frame video of those events :D What I would give to have another PLEASURE race against Wazzup in P class...... :drink:

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Lets back up guys!!!! When I said pleasure I meant it brings you pleasure to go race what you have and thats it. I'm not referring to it means that its a pleasure boat! Talk about being sensitive. I apologies for not making my pleasure statement with greater detail. Maybe this will help. You race P class and don't get much money for it.You race P class and are never on TV. You race P class and you are racing against boats with similar speed but different sizes and motors are OK. Now if you are doing all that it must be bringing you PLEASURE or why would you do it.
And Smitty I do get it!!!! Racers are reaching out to you so you will improve on the rules so they feel like they have a shot at winning. If you don't want to listen to them its your call. And if you don't like SV then get out as fast as you can and do P class if it brings you more PLEASURE.
MD :eek:

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Mad-Dog, I got me a pleasure boat! Kinda... and your right man...I love this $hit! You, Hollywood, Smitty, Val,Bruce, Ron P., Kurt got me into and hooked on this, THANKS, my family hates me, Lisa wants to get rid of me...AGAIN and my business suffers from me not being there. Huuummmm, what's wrong with that picture. But I would do it ALL again, in P-Class where just about Everybody started out. The future might be different but I Love This $hit now!!!

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Dont hold your breath :rolleyes:

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I thought you already wear them. :eek:

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

You guys make some valid points,but does anyone here truly believe that a twin engine cat with moderate HP belong in the same class as a 32 Activator or a 27 foot boat,NO,Does anyone believe that a 30 foot Spectre belong in P4,No except one person,I am not trying to piss anyone off but you just can not run boats with twins and alot of length against a single High HP motor and think that it will Never work out fairly,they sometimes can run the same speeds but not when it gets rough,the rollong thunder boat car run those speeds in almost any water conditions and I have seen it do back from when it was called Special Edition.A 32 Activator is a great boat but it can not and never will be able to keep up those types of speeds in a moderate to ruff water conditions.I agree that there is a place for P Class boats but you have to have twin engine and single engine classes as well as cat classes but they have to be split up properly,Length,Weight,Cubic inch,and some sort of max CFM Carb set up.

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

Nope, 5 classes, real easy. Best way to do it. If you build a boat to win, you will. Oh yeah, and running like 15 races a year like Augie and Smitty do doesn't hurt your chances either. Run with the big dogs, or stay on the porch :D

Re: Isnt it funny?
 

I guess I don't understand the "average lap speed" when the measured lap is not always an exact measurment. Doesn't that make things more of a guessing game for the racers?
-sigh- I miss the old days when everyone had a sealed GPS onboard and you knew exactly how fast you could go at any givin time. If you had to keep backing off to stay under that top speed, (read; sandbagging), then you needed to move up in class.
It sounds so easy, doesn't it? :rolleyes:

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I agree fully :cool:

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Willie, I have been in P2 all year. Racing against a 42 SV unlimited. Only lost by 3 seconds in NC......Right now the old boat is 12 mph faster than the SV. Put a roof on the wrong boat. Putting the original power back in for KW. Going back to defend the worlds, in P3 Best part of P class....Someone kicks your a@@.... Go home add 100 hp go back and kick his. Sooner or later we'll all be in P1....