That about sums up Dean's boats :evilb:

Legal for what? We don't have weight requirements in OPA.

dik! Have you even raced your sled yet?

Nope, I dont own a sled.. to cold. I do own a CRF450 That I'm going to race next weekend at an arenacross.. you should bring your kids out to race the youth program.


Plus last year I had a handicap while working on my boat :rolleyes:

By "sled" I meant that turd of a race boat you got.:grinser010:

This topic is why Bracket racing has been successful, engine size and prop size and rpm aren't always reliable ways to govern speed. OTC would run 120 easy with 750, Unleashed
a 35 Cig Gladiator was running 103-4 w 750. prop and rpm calc's work good on indentical hulls but the broad spectrum of manufacterers make it tough do to the different hull speeds. The OPA has done a great job of evening out the field to the point of everyone having a shot at winning and thats what it's all about.:ernaehrung004:

[QUOTE=MANITIE;2377053]we also got beat by a old F2 38 Fomula with 700's in it at Cambridge by 2 seconds...

Just remember that old formula for next year. :grinser010:How did that blower whine sound behind us?:p

Louie,
Thats not really the topic, I was curious as to the placement of the various boats, as it seems that the phrase anyone can win on any given sunday but it appears the same always do. and one would logically associate a ex Super Vee boat with P-2, as a majority of the boats do run P-2 or class 2 which ever you care to call it. as for the speeds will OPA unit thier speeds in line with SBI or vice versa???

OPA rules are frozen for at least 2008. They lock in for 3 years in a row.

The only old SV's in P-2 or Class 2 are Fountains...the rest are in P-3 or Class 3....the Phantoms, Dragons, Cigs, and we even said we would put the Bad boys boats in with us, along with any open cockpit old SV Fountains....like the old Peir 57 boat of Lisa's and Bill along with the Black Pearl boat...

But if you look at are class, we have had a number of leaders in our class all year....everyboat in Class 3 this year lead in a race one time or another...what dose that say for parity...

[quote} BobbyB. Just remember that old formula for next year. :grinser010:How did that blower whine sound behind us?:

Bobby....and here me and Jim though that noise was you passing gas from all that time you spent on the golf course that night

Pete, maybe I can help you here. OPA places the boats. The boats dont get to choose which class they run. We start with a prop calc, and then test run the boats. Randomly we will single out a class, and have them all in the water on test day, and we will run every boat in the class. It is difficult to find parity, with all the different combinations, but the racing has been very tight. Once we get to know the boats we pretty much know how fast they all are. I have probably been in most of them.

The topic of old SV's I am so sorry I did not go after those new Fountains at the worlds. We ran P2 propped at 100. on a small gear ratio. Our lap times were faster than the Outer limits, and Preditor, and only 3 mph slower than the SV's. I dont know if we could beat them, but it would have been close. Bracket racing has it's place. But if you want to work at it, those new Fountains are not out of reach. We are going after them. Their top end is 115 ours is 114, I know Louie and Dean are also in that game. So how about it guys. One time lets pick a race and Kick their a@@. Old Boats need lovin too. Smitty

Smitty, thanks for clarifying the process but to youre own admittance your boat is capable of 114 mph wouldnt that put you in Class 1???

And is weight figured into the placement of the class, I would think all the EX SV would weight around 8000 lbs. It appears that the P-1 Power to weight ratio would be a better determining factor, But the cost to dyno all the motors would probably not be a good money move.

And is the advantage towards the canopy boats, or the open boats?? I would personally think the canopy boats give a extra margin of safety.

Smitty,

I know what you mean..in the 1st race of the '06 Worlds we had to s-l-o-w d-o-w-n at the end of our laps to let the Super V's go by.

Really made us wish we had not moved to P-Class...then came Sunday with 6 laps....pretty cool watching the SV's lap you on the 4th lap knowing you weren't in that race...then again the best we ever saw was 105 on the ripples of Lake Tarpon.

I'll never forget Matt Croce's words after the first time he took a ride in my boat...."you got a real nice 95 mph boat there"

Oh how right he was....

Pete...I'm a little confused here.....you started a post and asked a good question about why some older SV's run P2 and some P-3...and we have all given you the reasons which all boats that race in P-2 and P-3 all agree is fair....your now trying to come up with ways to find fault or fair parity within our racing Orgs.....

OPA has all older SV's that do not run the same speed or even close to the same speed...Smitty Louie and Dean who all run Fountains run in P2 or class 2 in SBI/APBA Muscle and the old skater with #6's run in P2....we all are happy and think its fair....why are you trying to find problems with the bracket racing.....

as far as the speed differance between SBI/APBA and OPA....yes there is a 3 mph differance...and its no problem...when OPA came to SBI/APBA site we raced under SBI/APBA rules....OPA said there rules are locked in threw 08,

I think its good if you have questions about P-Class.... because you have been involved with spec racing for the last 4 years....but if Smitty wants to set up his boat to run against the newer SV's and he can get 114 out of it...its not a reason for him to compete against the same hull with 750's in it or race against a cat with 750's in it....and we all know that here....

Just courious....what would you do to make it better....because it seems to be working very well...

My point is trying to understand how the classes are formed, Class 6 and Class 5 have boat size and number of engines that are consistent, and easy to understand. When LLC had bracket racing they put a boat in the class best fitted for that boat giving the best of all parameters. Was it the best , NO.

With a multitude of people responding to the questions, it opens the door for other questions , while it may appear as double talk, I still am not sure why some of these boats run where they do. Example SMitty's boat can run 114, why doesnt it run Class 1, and if your boat runs 105 why not run class 2. In ken's last statement, Matt from throttle told him he had a great 96 mph boat. which of course fits right into class 3 or p-3 or whatever you want to call it.

My questions are to better understand placement of boats, there are several for sale that I know of and it is obvious where the will be able to race, and for the casual observer of threads that fall under General discussion, may give that person looking to race a better insight. I am not trying insinuate I have a better idea. I am just asking about things that seem inconsistent to logic. thats all nothing more nothing less.

Pete...you just need to read what were saying...

I think its great that your asking questions...some people may also be woundering...

I said I can get 105 out of my boat if I change the gear ratio and run a big prop...but that set up would be like the others setting up for a kilo run...I would never run it in a race or spend the money to get it there...

Take Kens boat...run a 1:50 gear in it and a set of 31's and it runs around 93....
Take my boat with a 1:5 gear and a set of 31's and it runs around 94..
Take the Wanted SV with the 1:5 gear and a set of 31s and it runs around 94
Take Gregg's Phantom with #6's and run what ever prop it needs and it will get to 93

Take Smittys, Lou's, Deans, David Branch and Bill M SV's and they will run over 100 with ease....

Boats get put into a class were it fits...each Org has a calculation that is used to determine this....Smitty also explained how they run the the race boats to see what there boats are capible of....

How cam Smitty run p-1 against Traffic Light and myself when we have warmed up 750s with 1.6 ratio #6s and 7600 rpms?We have too much acceleration and the reliability of 6s.If traffic light doesn't flip and we dont spin,Smitty dont win.

Pete, When I say the new Fountains run 115 and mine is close, that is a kilo setup not race conditions. I asked Brett what he saw in KW in his 42, 107 was the fastest he could go. In Class 2 OPA we can run 105. Yes we can break out, and we have. By about 2 mph, in the dead flat. The difference is, in Spec class, there is always a dominant boat that checks out. Speed is the ticket. Once a boat gets away there is no way for another to catch him. What I have come to realize in Bracket racing, for instance Class2 105 is the number. No longer does the fastest boat check out. The boats are propped for 105. Now you have to find excelleration, and cornering to win. More of a drivers game. Example Louie in Strictly Buss. His boat will out excellerate ours, we have an edge in the turns. The racing has been extremely close. The better they become with their boat the closer it gets. It is not just a matter of finding speed and checking out. Yes I loved spec class no doubt about that. But Bracket racing can be just as challenging. The SV's that run the 95 mph class have some of the best racing around.
As far as the Power to weight in the P1 overseas, I still cant figure out how they can make that work. I have two boats. The old Wazzup and the Fountain. Both weigh 8020 lbs. The actual running lenght of the boats are the same. We put the 750 from the old boat in the Fountain. The old boat runs 105, the Fountain ran 138. The hull is the factor. How do you make that work? I spoke to Steve M. about maybe starting a P1 class here in the US, but the formula doesn't make sense. Unless you had all identicle hulls. I personally thankyou for your line of questioning, because I am sure there are a lot of people who dont understand how the bracket racing works. Every race we find a little something we can apply to make it better.

Thank you for the reply, I personally think many dont know how it works, and by going into detail many have a better understanding. When a come up with question 3, I am sure i will get a bunch of answer it is winter and it sux.

Now with a speed closer to 107 for Miccosukee, Your boat would be able to compete with them right?? I know the skater cant be that far off the mark as others have said.

If I dont come up with another question By Christmas, well hope all everyone has a good.

I think part of the problem in SV is that Reggie has proved his point. Even if I or someone else found a way to beat the new generation SV's. Reggie will step up his game and come back and really do a number on you. Not that there is anything wrong with that, just, how long can you fight that battle. I cant even imagine how much time and money, Rick and Nigel spent on that Skater to beat the Fountain. It's just a place few can afford to go. So off to Bracket racing it is.

Doesn't anybody think the 2 retards in the cockpit can make a significant differance in the outcome of a race. Equal boats or not spec or bracket ?.


I'm sure DC would have beat Pop Pop & his 2500 HP against our 1500 HP in KW with a good driver

smitty and myself are gonna swap boats with mut & jeff . you guys run the cintron fountain, & we will run the on the chip boat .......... congrats on 2nd place guys
johnny and smitty merry christmas !!!!!

OHHHHHHHH YEAAAAAAAA Sign me up coach

I do, in either style racing crew make up a big part of what happens on the course.


Steve,
Not fishing just BORED, and have been curious about the subject matter for a while, As for the skater a little out my price range although if I had it that would be the boat.
besides one race does not prove a lot, it takes testing and then more testing. Buts thats a whole other topic.

Oh yea what scl will make the others obsolete???

the doug wright????

Jimmy, 1st thing is, none of us are retards, lol we are unique individuals who are missing a brain component that keeps us from having common sense. 2nd thing is don't sell yourself short, remember we had a front row seat in Destin when you guys went at it with the Orange Reliable in race 2 and it was the wildest race I have ever witnessed and I will not soon forget it.

that was a great race, from the live view, to the tv screen for the far end of the course.

well out with it, or is it coming from lockheed skunkworks??

In your statement: There is a new SCL due out if it works you have an obsoleted fleet.

The key word in that statement is "IF" many well thought out plans have fail when leaving the slide rule and paper to todays CAD.


And where will it race???

I don't think it was the driver you needed JC to push the throttles all the way down :D

Myst**

cats out of the bag.... oops. :drink:

maybe he was saying mystery boat :D

Pete....I think the differance between spec racing and bracket racing comes down to money....

To race spec...its is a constant investment to make your boat faster and handle better...and continue to purchase the newer advancements from the manufactures, I'm not saying its a bad thing...it just limites the amount of racers that have the time and money to do it....

While in bracket...you can take any performance boat....spend what you can to get it running at a good speed and get put into a class....tweeking here and there on acceleration dose not cost much at all....

I've done both....and to see what a year of spec racing costs to a year of bracket racing costs...the lost/profit statement would baffle you...and to take the overall racing....I'm talking about, take the adv. lap speeds and how close the racing was...

An we all say its about the fans....and we need to put on a show....well the fans really don't know the differants between spec and bracket racing, but they do know watching deck to deck racing from start to finish is what makes this sport exciting....and maybe spec racers will understand that there is a big place in Offshore racing for us.....

Just a thought...

No one ever said there wasnt a place, but in all motorsports you have the Bracket class and the Pro class. Example is Drag boats while the bracket classes fill the show, its the top fuel guy that the fans want to see, thier races are over in 4.5 seconds, and its another 2 hrs or so before they run again. During this time the top fuel motors are tore down and rebuilt which there is always a crowd around when this happens.

As for the fans, they dont know the difference but they do know when the boats like Bud Select come out, And when many ask the difference in the class, and the usual reply is "Thats too confusing". with such large turn outs singleing out the classes may make for a better understanding of the classes.

If all the spec boats were to come over and race in bracket racing you would see many of the older boats leave, because they know they would simple be out gunned.

Please remember that its the Big guys from the various organizations and manufacturer's that put in thier $$$ and they want to be the show.

First off !! who is mut & who is jeff ?? Do I know them ? what boat do they run ? 2nd I'll take that bet !!! I'll even put 25 large up against your $ 0 lets go this weekend I'll fly the four of us down and we can stop and pick up DC's bail in KW so you know I'm serious. Or maybe pink slips AAAHHH !! better yet if we win you give us the right to borrow that badboy so we can go put a hurtin on that catkiller thingamajig. Or would it upset you if we made that boat WORK !! a little. Ask my little buddy halfpint (Herb ) if he thinks the motors would stay together past 6000 for more then 15 min. cuz I would hate to be leading and then break:rolleyes:

Hey Stanch, i hope your enjoying your championship this winter.You probably feel as proud as Mike Tyson knocking out a kid from Elementary school:Whatever::grinser010:-JC

JC, Iron Mike has the mentality of a grade school kid so that might not have been the best analogy, lol. Hey he doesn't read these posts does he?

WELL ??? Johnny ? Smitty ? If you guys weren't a couple of old farts that were born before DIRT !!! you wouldn't have to think about it so long !!:grinser010:

Wait A Min Curtis Your Boat Beat Me When Jc Had The Stix , Maybe Louie's Right ???? You Gotta Push Them Puppies Alllllll The Way Down !!!!!