Dyno Sheets
 

hea would any of you supercat guys, relialbe, byrider or talk'n trash, volunteer your dyno sheets for comparison?
i have a set of 565 big block that are n/a and run on pump gas. i'm trying to get them up to par to someday run agianst the 750's and the merc sc850 motors.

thanks dave

Call me and ill help u..need to be 810hp and 640tq...you should easily be able to do it.I have access to a NEW big block head that just got done last month its killer...The torque numbers are off the charts...the first 14 pair sold out 1 month. THESE HEADS would make a killer poker run engine with no blower...

Maybe we could ALL run together then..

then we can just tweak the boost some or maybe add a few more hundred rpm's.... :drink:

ya that would work

ill edit that it looks condesending...thanks sean

hey i will say it, no guardian! :drink:

if everything is set up correctly, guardian shouldn't be an issue.

Tony ,
Give me a call when u get a chance...
321 693-0023

Frank

power curve
 

i wanted to see the dyno sheet and compare it too what these motors make. i have heard that the 750 supercat motors make hp on the top end and thats why the low revving 850's can pull them with the added torque from the blowers. plus they make 850 hp ??? from merc.

sean, i would love to see the merc guys run straight up agianst the 750 n/a's.. but there's a reason the merc motors only rev to 6200.

tony/byrider how does one get in touch with you?
dave

torque
 

tony is that max torque output or
is the torque rating at max hp output?

the 850's are limited to 6k on the ecu, they could rev much higher.

to have 850 and 750's run together wouldnt be that hard. On the shorter, tighter courses the 850's would be hard to beat (talkin trash at loto for example) and the longer courses the 750's higher propshaft speeds win out on the longer straights. Take away the 36 pitch rule for the 850's and the long courses would be a good fight. (even with that an 850 boat lead just about every lap at KW between the 2 classes) I don't know how to help the 750's with the shorter, tighter course. Maybe even less weight, different gear? Be nice to find a way to level it out without engine changes or modifications.

engine spec
 

loosen the engine specs.
they need to be flow better at the heads.

let 810's (no point in calling them 750's huh?) run whatever heads they want and the 850's any props they want.... problem solved.:drink: that was easy.

really though, those guys control their own rules at least in OSS. If they want to change the heads, all they have to do is agree and vote on it. Now if they want to combine with the 850's after that, then both classes would have to come to an agreement on something, hopefully that can happen at some point.

The reason you wont see that happening is Merc is in the business of selling motor's. That is what started the brake up in the beginning.

sterlings
 

HHMMMMMMM
the two sterling boys been quite!!

extreme your killing sean and i's dream of one day see a C1 type racing back in the states!!!!

Sorry guys welcome to the real world. U never know I could be wrong, maybe Tony can shed some light on that.

mercury, sterling and the v-12 guys all run together over there (and competively, they all have wins this year), so we know its not them. it only leaves the people running the sport over here to blame, but I think we already knew that.

Sean,

U need to have a conversation with Tony, and I'm sure will have a different out look . Its not as simple as you would like to believe.

actually, I have talked to Tony. I know where most everybody stands on the subject.

Are there simple solutions? Yes. Will it be easy? No. But you have to start somewhere, and throwing ideas out there isn't gonna hurt anybody.

but with shrinking fields and a poor economy, the priemer spec class has to come together somehow, and the sooner the better. Hopefully there will be a couple races this year where they all can run each other again, that's the only way we are gonna figure out the best method to even up the two classes.

Sounds like a plan, be great to see them all running together. KW was great with both classes running at the same time.

You guys all all on the money...we can come out at 8000 lbs so i know we can make it interesting...but the 850 guys must agree....Xtreme your right...Sean you guys are fine with me...you and GUY are good guys to race...plus u have a open mind...I just think it can be like overseas where all run different packages and atleast TRY and make it work...I had alot fun in Key west with the 850s and know Billy had fun trying to piss with me... we had a valvetrain issue we will figure out with a trip to the SPINTRON this winter..it was our fault...You guys are all on the Right track...now if we can get some 850 guys to do the same...Dave call my shop 330-343-4900 and i help any way i can....Frank ill call u tommorrow...
Keep pluggin away guys , when the times get tough it slims the players down and its easier to deal with 6-7 guys.....
Dave its 810 at about 7100 and 640 down about 6000...we shift it around sometimes ...

I just like tuning are own stuff, the 850 is a good motor,just not my cup of tea...BUT if i can build an 850 like MERCURY said anyone could and run in the class i would.....

Does any one know the state of MERCURY's 850 deal, is the contingency money available in 09??/

mercs
 

anyone know how the merc 850 looks on a dyno.
tony i would think some of the old timers in the 850 would be agianst it but but what about changing the weight around to get all the piston powered boats in one class.

let the 750's change the heads and make alittle more torque and keep them at 9500 lbs. or keep the current 750 spec motor and go to 9000 lbs.

let the 850's stay the same and get rid of the drive and prop rule.

make the extreme boats choke the motors down to 930 hp and weigh in at 10 k or 10.5 and see how it all pans out.

i know in the rough the bigger guys would have an advantage no matter what. but wouldn't it be better to loose to ten boats rather than win agianst only one or two.

with how the ecomony is going everyone should be pulling together to but on the best show possible to try to make the oss tv and tony's "supercat racing" more main stream.

i would dyno anyones 850 free if they want....Skaterdave i would do any of those things mentioned...most the others in the class would agree too...Again we need to get all to agree to SOMETHING...Supercat racing gets a lot of hits from europe...it was made to showcase alot of the cats and hope in the future the big vs here in the states....you ideas of the 930 rule is excellent...we could get there reasonably...just got a new phone today dave call me...

Hey Tony,,, Merry X-mas and clean out your PM box . LOL

Sorry guys.

By the way Happy Holidays to all of you.

no need to dyno, they only make 775.... :party-smiley-004::drink:

What :eek:??????? the 750's make up to 840 HP !!!!:party-smiley-004:

okay, okay, 776, but thats my top offer.... sounds like the 750's got them more then covered... :drink:

torque !!!!
 

sean look at the torque #'s tony is talking about and you'll see why the 850sc's pull so good out of the hole. plus it wouldn't surprise me if the 850's made a little more hp than labeled.
the 750 are screamers, but they don't have the power behind them. kinda like the two stroke vs 4 stroke dirt bikes.

910-915ish... the 775 is right, thats just is at 4900 :drink:

everybody have a good holidays....!

sean 915 torque and 775hp....those look odd even on a blower motor???..now i have to dyno one...so peak hp is only 775?...thought hp to be 840 at 5900...we could nevr get close to the torque number, lower boat weight???maybe...what does GUY think about all this...

Parity
 

It's an elusive animal. You would need to start with an air inlet restriction on the engines. The abilty to manipulate the 850 is endless. The most viable method to prevent it from effecting the results is to keep air out of it.
Steve

The 850 is a spec motor. I thought that meant you can't manipulate it. If the 750s really want to race against, or with the 850s wouldn't weight be a simple start, vs changing all the motor specs. I don't know how much weight a 750 boat can lose though. Other than Talking Trash will the other 750 boats even come out and race with the 850s.

850
 

You can manipulate an 850 you are not supposed to per the class rules.
Steve

910 hp 6k, torque is a little less. i was just messing with scott. :drink:

Here we go again,,,,,,,,ITS CALLED RACING ,,NOT CHEATING!!!

Tony, If enough of the class supports a rule change then the class can vote for the change, I think that if you, Jimmy and Tom were in 850 class now then it might be possible to vote for a rule change.

i see...u want us to sign up 850??? steve u are correct a restrictor like overseas would regulate the hole deal..i talked about it mid year with steve curtis and mike from Sterling..
i cant get our boat down to 7900 to 8000 at the end of the race..I met Guy from Fury in Key west, Im going to try and get together with them atleast once this year..

Hey Dumb Fox answer the phucking phone !!

copy of the class 1
 

tony, i cant take credit for the idea. i'm just twisting the class 1 rules to fit most of the piston powered boats are running today. the main problem would be some racers would not as open to this as Guy is.

as for the motors, i just back from testing at the engine shop i use and these puppies would fill the gap inbetween the 510ci and the 850sc. they make about the same hp as a sterling supercat spec motor, from what i have been able to find out. plus the make alot more torque, closer to what the 850 sc motor makes. and have the rpm range of the 510 motor.

plus these thing would cost about half what a merc 850 would be and the rebuild cost again would quite abit less

tony, the closest thing to the 510 motor in the automotive race world is a 472cu.in. big block modified. these are about the same as 510 motor, the major difference is probably the heads. also in talking with my engine builder he had a couple of blocks from CC perf. and he also happen to bring the heads you were talking about. anyway i found that interesting, it's a small world?? if you don't mind ask CC how many modified motors he build compared to supercat? i will assume that the cost for a big block mod motor is quite lower than the supercats. i bring this motor up because i know some racers personally that run the modified motors and race all year with one motor. rule of thumb is 20 feature races before rebuild. these motors new run about 30 -35 k. quite alot less then the blue motors.

there should be other options rather than a one engine manufacture rule. plus this would lessen the costs for some racers to run supercat. for what you could buy a 525 merc for in cat lite, instead you could run with supercat. this might add more boats, which would create more competion which would make the racing better. which would get more people interested in running supercat, which would have a snowball effect.
get it !

65 mm restrictors for everybody. Merc has already dealt with it before.

like the ole chinese proverb though, beware what you wish for. :drink:

Sean ..yes we know they exist mike has a few of them too..as does mercury, but can will 850 guys use them..When u use these things it eliminates alot of possible "tweaking"...air in limiting...

Skaterdave..you on the right track...Chucky and Ed build alot of those motors and they do last..30 to 35 k is the cost of the motors...added cost to "marinize" them..ie bellhousing, water pump etc...Call me at my shop 330-343-4900..The SUPERCAT guys are looking to expand Supercat back to what it was. Alot of MISinformation out there...As u can see it can be more economically feasible than led to believe previously...
And Yes ALL manufacturers should Play...We would look at ANY engine combo proposed..the naturally aspirated motors are so simply.I do like the CATLITE deal for a beginner cat guy to get into and its reasonable but your right for the cost you can run SUPERCAT almost. We would like the 850 boats to compete as well...This separation thing is silly...You need to try the new heads...their 464cid make more torque than our 510's nice flat curve, ton down low..Chuck has said basically what u have done to bump up cubes and goes to the new heads...

Garbageman ill answer the dam phone call me...you ready to get you butt kicked this year...i went easy on you last year....

tony
 

tony, i have to go with the garbage man on this one. you don't answer you phone. called yesterday and left massage.

as for marinizing, most of the stuff would be a one time purchase and other than drive plates the stuff should last form motor to motor. plus we're only talking maybe a few bucks compared to the whole package. and i know that the merc's come ready to drop in.

as for the heads, i'm sure i'll hear about if and when chuck takes a set out to the dyno. from what i heard the heads were good for another 30 hp on a modified motor. was that what helped CC put a modified on the outside pole at Syracuse NY?