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Old 12-30-2015 | 12:10 PM
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Chris

One last thing before I get back to work I won't keep you too long i know you're very busy you have to be you haven't taken my call on the last 3 months.

You say its not true spec racing because there is 4 different motors but if they all fit within the rule book what's the issue what's the difference who makes it weather at scorpion sterling Tyler you mercury it's all about affordability.

So I guess your suggestion is go to the SBI 510 moto take all the rest of the motors out and make everybody have to go buy new motors and spend 20 $30,000.

Let me ask you a question do NASCAR engines have individual part numbers in their rule book let me help you with that the answer is No the rule specify spec that it has to be a lot of teams will use individual parts that they are sponsored for or given by sponsors. This probably 20 different people building those motors to NASCAR specs what's the difference whose name is on it if NASCAR feels it meets the specs then it's illegal motor.

The mercury 525 is discontinued end of story it's gone it's antiquated, but as long as they exist and races have them and can keep them together SBI is not prepared to tell them they have to go out and buy a new equipment. They have laid the groundwork for the future of what the new motor is going to be there are four built now eventually the 5:25 will die off and teams will build new motors when they feel it's necessary but in the meantime all the motors will have to meet spec and be approximately the same horsepower.

Last edited by Xtremeracing; 12-30-2015 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 12-31-2015 | 08:54 AM
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Is $20,000 to $30,000 the price to build a competitive SBI motor now ? Is that with top of the line high end parts or just minimal quality low end spec parts. Not sure I agree the 525 Merc is antiquated. Yes you cant buy a new one from Merc but you certainly can rebuild one of the thousands out there with all new parts if you want. ALL THE PARTS ARE STILL AVALIABLE! Its a proven solid platform for racing at WOT for hours.
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Old 12-31-2015 | 09:35 AM
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Randy,

You are correct, the Mercury 525 EFI was a great motor. In looking through the classified and FB powerboat swap shop, 525's asking prices are ballpark 20 G. That in addition to sending it to Merc for the rebuild in the 12 G range makes your legal motors 32 G. You of all have seen the damage(elimination) to 2 classes done by Mercury by discontinuing a motor. All SBI is trying to do is give you options, ie builders, parts, etc... What is the price of the Gen x CMI's vs the Mercury CMI's? What is the price of Crane Gold 1.7 rockers from Crane? from mercury? I'll fill you in, a huge difference.... IMO when you say high end parts vs low end parts, the performance is still the same, its the reliability that makes it a high end part... specs are specs, you can only get so much out of a certain spec... once again, WE have that option what part we use, where we cut corners(if we chose to) etc

You are a consumer, if you were to go out and buy a 2016 truck tomorrow, do you want a 2016 engine or would you be happy with a 2005 engine in it?

What makes a spec class spec is tech, you are happy with all the plethora of tech your motors go through in pre race, we are happy with ours

You are happy with your rules, congrats we applaud you and only wish you the best of success up there, I personally chose to do business with engine builders that support the racers, organizations and charge reasonable prices for the very same quality that Mercury has put out
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Old 12-31-2015 | 09:36 AM
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The problem with that Randy is that a manufacturer building a new boat it's hard to him to sell the guy I used 525. But I agree with you I'm sure there will be parts around for a while.

Depending on the builder you can probably build a motor for 18 - $20,000. If you build ur own probably $16,000
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Old 12-31-2015 | 09:51 AM
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Randy, the first time you see 10 svls racing your going to want to be apart of it. Mercury quit sending checks years ago, and the guys up North with 2 motors will eventually get tired of changing back to the 525 and going slower.

Whats another $20,000 in the boat racing world. Plus the world's greatest passenger has retired!
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Old 12-31-2015 | 10:50 AM
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whatever

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Old 12-31-2015 | 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Aqua Banshee
Randy, the first time you see 10 svls racing your going to want to be apart of it. Mercury quit sending checks years ago, and the guys up North with 2 motors will eventually get tired of changing back to the 525 and going slower.

Whats another $20,000 in the boat racing world. Plus the world's greatest passenger has retired!
Mark, I agree with most of what you said. There is only one team LSB that has 2 motors and he likes racing in KW
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Old 12-31-2015 | 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by F1-00 Racing
Randy,

You are correct, the Mercury 525 EFI was a great motor. In looking through the classified and FB powerboat swap shop, 525's asking prices are ballpark 20 G. That in addition to sending it to Merc for the rebuild in the 12 G range makes your legal motors 32 G. You of all have seen the damage(elimination) to 2 classes done by Mercury by discontinuing a motor. All SBI is trying to do is give you options, ie builders, parts, etc... What is the price of the Gen x CMI's vs the Mercury CMI's? What is the price of Crane Gold 1.7 rockers from Crane? from mercury? I'll fill you in, a huge difference.... IMO when you say high end parts vs low end parts, the performance is still the same, its the reliability that makes it a high end part... specs are specs, you can only get so much out of a certain spec... once again, WE have that option what part we use, where we cut corners(if we chose to) etc

You are a consumer, if you were to go out and buy a 2016 truck tomorrow, do you want a 2016 engine or would you be happy with a 2005 engine in it?

What makes a spec class spec is tech, you are happy with all the plethora of tech your motors go through in pre race, we are happy with ours

You are happy with your rules, congrats we applaud you and only wish you the best of success up there, I personally chose to do business with engine builders that support the racers, organizations and charge reasonable prices for the very same quality that Mercury has put out
heres youre real answer.
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Old 12-31-2015 | 12:01 PM
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Randy you can convert your 525 according to the specs in the rulebook pretty simple it eqsy compression cubic inch and go to an MSD ignition.

You don't even have to buy a new motor it would probably cost you five or $6,000 converted ur motor. And the intakes and computers you take off and the throttle bodies are all saleable.

If you look at Steve M new motor it looks like a 525 with a carburetor on it.
SBI will never use 1 manufacturer or engine builder again if we do all we are doing is changing evils from Mercury to someone else. Once you have one proprietary builder and the prices start to creep up year after year we're right back in the same place we are now and have to find a new builder and change the rules again. I hope we learn something from history you don't need to repeat it again. The definition of an idiot is someone that does the same thing time after time and expect a different outcome.

This is a very simple motor to build it's based off of 502 block same as the 525 .
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Old 12-31-2015 | 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TYPHOON
Sounds like its a over price issue you have with merc. I agree there parts cost are crazy to say the least. The rebuild was around $10 K not $12K. And I can find used Merc 525 motors for $12k that need rebuilds. What if we were allowed to use equal to parts with the same specs on our Merc 525 and have a new builder other than Merc. Would that change peoples minds about the package? IMO the platform of the 525 is solid.
That all sounds good but then you still have the same problem with the RPM's with box being sealed. You have no way to monitor who was running what RPM and we know how easy it is to turn those boxes up.

Unfortunately it just doesn't work for SBI how are race is a very happy with the new package and having the options are running there 525 also.

One other thing that we looked at very carefully is parody now with the MSD ignition and the data loggers instead of having teams add weight or lower their drive which could possibly create handling problems its very simple just to lower their rpms 200. The data logger will tell the technicians exactly how many rpms they were running. You don't even have to stand over a team to make sure they change anything it's their call if they think they can get away with it so be it but the data logger doesn't lie. Also there is a ton of other information in the data logger that the technical team looks out also if a team is running extremely faster than the rest of the class they will know it can even tell your acceleration.

It is not specifically mercury it's being held hostage by anyone builder, that is suicide for the future. With the package SBI created like it or not there is no reason why the rule book should ever have to change again. It's a simple 502 block with affordable accessible components. Every motor builder that we have spoken with before we made this decision all agreed it was a no brainer. They all said the same thing keep it simple stupid.

Last edited by Xtremeracing; 12-31-2015 at 04:11 PM.
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