New SVL being built !!!
 

In case any of you don't know. In the Activator section there is a thread on a new Super Vee Lite (SVL) being built. They are doing a great job of documenting the build each step of the way. I know its winter time and this may make the long days go by quicker watching a race boat being built. Just thought I wanted to share. Any one else have any thing in the works?

A new all carbon Bandit. Boat is now in rigging stage with a Sbi 510 ci power package/Imco drive. Boat was sold to be raced the 2016 Sbi circuit.

Chis awesome will u also be racing hull #1 in 2016? Could possibly be 12 registered boats for this coming yr. It will make for one hell of a show down in KW.

Any pics you can share on the build? Seems like good advertising

That would be cool Chris post some pics.

Soon. Boat is covered in blue plastic while being rigged. Both boats hopefully will race 2016. I want to sell the Vortec engine I have in #1 now and run the same 510 Sbi motor.

Awesome sounds like a plan. Give me a call when ur free this wk.

Any speed ideas for this bandit being built??

Chris would have to answer that, but we spoke quite a bit a few months ago when he was testing and the boat was running some impressive numbers.

My point is that we have played with the bottom of my boat many times to try and find that "new set up" with only 6 feet to work with we have tried different angles on the lifting strakes, removed strakes, shortened strakes, added a notch, blue printed, moved tabs, changed the air intake to the step wider pad, steeper dead rise and all those attempts didn't gain squat after long term testing each. Yes we had a couple magic days that some set ups were faster but after several test sessions on different days with the same set up the average never changed much. There are so many variables when testing that its almost impossible to do back to back test. The SVL boats that have been running the 525 package for the last 10 years have made little to no progress in speed or handling. The only progress has ben from prop work IMO. At weight, 85 deg outside temp, stock 525, 1/2" below x dimension, single step, no current (NO river) the best boats are all with in 91-93 MPH and 94 is a flash not a consistent speed. This is the same speeds as 10 years ago!!!! This is what makes this class great. With that being said I have no data on twin or triple step boats

Good point Randy

Point taken. New technology has progressed a long way though. Even with all the changes made to your bottom the angles stayed the same. Multi steps have proven to be faster, although some believe it's due to cheating. Let me back up a bit here. I raced single engine outboard vee's for years. Conventional vee hulls with 260 mercs in the low to mid 80,s running on the last 6 inches of the pad. All the brand's were pretty competitive. I decided to buy a twin step 23 foot bat boat with twin steps. Took power from my conventional vee and dropped it on the twin step bat boat. 97mph first time out. On top of this 2/3's of the hull was wet versus the 6 inches of the conventional vee. It was light years faster in the calm and even more so in the rough because I didn't need to back off. The rougher it got the more punishment I dished out. Bottom design was radical and it worked. The multi steps can be pushed harder in race conditions because they handle any sea condition better if the angles are right. Average speeds are higher and that's what wins races. Most times you need to start with a clean slate. I used to modify the he'll outa my conventional vee's too, just no comparison to a well designed multi step.

And that is why muli step boats have more weight in OPA. IMO weight may not be the equalizer to keep boats in check but its a start. Something needs to be done or we wont have a class if new multi step bottoms beat up on single step boats. And so now we can have the "what to do" debate LOL. Destroy a class or try and figure a way to make close racing with out starting another SVL class. I remember in Factory One you had different weights for different lengths and if you didn't have a step you could run a extension box. And guess what at the worlds with 20 plus boats in the class the oldest and shortest boat with a box on the back won the title (Freedom which was a Corsa)

That contradicts everything you said in your earlier post about technology not changing. If technology hasn't changed why are some boats faster than others?

Randy

That's why I said in an earlier post that I almost couldn't believe what you had said. Like Chris said the angle of attack the depth of the steps the angle of the steps the placement of the steps there is so much more that can be done with new technology then trying to retrofit a boat that you have. All the work you did didn't change the placement of the steps the depth of them so on and so on. The technology today surpasses old technology it was good in its time.

Then you get into boats with a pad bottom not only do some have pads but again then that all changes by the size of the pad the placement of the pad. That's a whole nother ball of wax all together, so you put a pad on a boat and multiple steps on a boat things change quick.

You need to take a good look at the outer limits bottom there was a reason for what Mike did he didn't just do it because it looks good, a lot of time effort and money when into advancing the technology of V bottom boats.

Maybe I am not saying it right then. Yes multi step bottom boats are faster and more eff than a single step. There for if you want to race the newer boats with the older boats there has to be some way to equalize them. Im saying that it has been done in the past where an older smaller boat was able to win and we had I believe 22 boats from new to old. Yes the technology was better on the new boat but the rules were such that an older boat was capable of winning on any given day. If you want boat count some how you need to include the guy's that cant spend $200K on a new boat IMO. I understand its a fine line but until you have a class with lost of new boats (which I don't see in the near future) what do you do? The guy's will just leave and race in class 4 and you will have 1-3 new boats in SVL. I hope for SBI's sake Im wrong.

Randy right now it looks like SBI will have 10 registered boats for 2016. SBI has firm for rules boat and motor, and tech.

I look forward to seeing 10 boats at the first race. Congrats on a the first 10 boat fleet of SVL. I have heard all this before and hope this year has different results. What 10 boats do you predict will be at the first race or 13 at the worlds? That would triple the boats from last years fleet. Please don't tell me that means 10-13 boats will race at least once all year. really?????

That's up to the registered team what races they will race. All I said is it looks like right now we should have 10 team .

Randy

Not really sure how we got on to the OPA SBI controversy. All I did was reply to your statement about you hope for SBI sake that you were wrong because they would end up with 1/ 3 boats I would worry about SBI. They have 6 registered boat now and 4 more possible boats getting ready to register if everything works out for them as far as completing their boats.

You need to be more proactive instead of negative you want to bring up what happened in the past and how many times we heard that. I guess we could be proactive and say maybe this is the year, being it's the class that you race I would think you wouldn't be as negative as you are.

I look at it as a positive thing that boat manufacturers or actually building new SV. In the last few years there have been more boats built then in the previous ten years

The unfortunate reality is that there are two classes of svl. OPA svl and Sbi svl. I believe OPA has svl as it was originally intended. I will be racing with Sbi for geographic reasons. Sbi now have their new motor in the rules which totals 4 engine packages for the class. Stock sealed 525, innovation Vortec, homebuilt 525 which we all know can make 650 hp and the new carb 510 ci motor. Not spec class racing by any means with four boats on the course with four different motors. Randy, you guys do a great job up there keeping things as equal as possible. My only option is to race majority of races in Florida. That being the case, only motor that makes sense to run is the most badass 510 money can buy that fits in the rules.

Chris,

First, there are only 3 motor options in the SBI rule book, the stock sealed 525 is not in the rulebook, but it is a legal motor as it does come in under the 9 to 1 and under the 510 cu... The options are there for now as the class is designed for growth. Within the next 2-3 years I am pretty sure the 525(homebuilt as you put it) and the vortec(only 1 team left with that motor) will be taken out and the 510 spec set up will be the only motor option left. The 525 is discontinued and we have all known that this was going to happen for over 3 years now and SBI is thinking to the future and I reiterate, growing the class.

The bottom line in our class(on both sides of the fence) is that you have boats that were made specific for A class and boats that were made specific to SVL... Here's the list of the SVLs and what they were built for:

Typhoon: A Class (OPA)
Pirate: A Class(OPA)
Octane: A Class(OPA)
Tug It: A Class(OPA)
WeHaulBoats.com: A Class(OPA, Sarasota Invitational)
Steady Pumpin: A Class(OPA)
LSB: SVL (OPA, SBI, Sarasota Invitational)
Boatfloater: SVL(SBI, OPA, Sarasota Invitational)
Punisher: SVL (OPA)
Red Hot: SVL (SBI)
Absolutely Not: SVL (SBI)
Snowy Mountain: SVL (SBI, LOTO Run What Ya Brung))
Bandit Hull #1 SVL (Sarasota Invitational, says SBI)
Bandit Hull #2 SVL (under construction, says SBI)
Sunprint: SVL (SBI)
Activator 30 Hull #1: SVL (says SBI)
Activator 30 Hull #2: SVL (under construction,says SBI)
TnT Racing: SVL (under construction, says SBI)
Laveycraft: SVL (for sale)
No Vacancy: A Class (SBI Bracket, Sarasota Invitational)
Phantom 9: SVL (SBI, Sarasota Invitational)
Mr Technology: SVL (OPA Bracket, Sarasota Invitational, says SBI)
Turn Key Marine: A Class (Free Agent)
R&S Offshore Bad Boy 32': SVL(honestly dont have a clue of status or intention, grandfathered into OPA rulebook)

Does anyone see the formation of a trend? OPA has a great class if everyone shows up as well as SBI... It is what it is and the OPA racers are happy as well as the SBI racers.. Yes geography has a lot to do with it... There is no fix to get all the boats together especially when you add the opinions and egos to the mix... I am certainly not saying the old A class boats are bad, but just as the moto of boat racing is "all it takes is time and money", Larry of Wild Card fame put the time and money into that boat(now Tug It) and that boat is consistently up front... I apologize if I missed any of the boats, but that sure is a nice list and a nice dream to see all of them on the same starting line, but it will never happen and there is no need to continue the silly season arguments about things that will never change

I didnt realize that the 525 was allowed in SBI? I was under the assumption that you had to have the SBI motor package? So a 525 with a turned up computer would work?

Yes.... copy/paste from SBI Technical Rulebook Revised 8-12-15

Page 37
Mercury Racing 525 EFI Motor, with its OEM Stock
Specifications, with the following exceptions a maximum
cubic inch limitation of 510 Cubic Inches and a maximum
RPM limitation of 5800 RPMS.

Thanks Trent

Mike,

A great resource for you would be to get up with Smitty and Louie as they run the "bumped" 525's in their Fountains and they can tell you off their history the reliability, pwr, success of them.. Off the top of my head they have only had drive issues, but dont hold me to that

The point of my post was that there are two svl classes that share the name but that's about it. There are 4 engine packages in Sbi. Randy can show up with a sealed 525, I can come with a Vortec, Miklos can bring a turned up 525 and LSB can bring a 510 carb motor. We will all pass tech and be put on the same course to race with each other and compete for 1 checkered flag. And that is just the way it is. I like the idea of the 510-but would have been better with an efi setup. Until this engine is spec'd down to part #'s for every component it's built with there will not be parity.

The point of my post was that there are two svl classes that share the name but that's about it. There are 4 engine packages in Sbi. Randy can show up with a sealed 525, I can come with a Vortec, Miklos can bring a turned up 525 and LSB can bring a 510 carb motor. We will all pass tech and be put on the same course to race with each other and compete for 1 checkered flag. And that is just the way it is. I like the idea of the 510-but would have been better with an efi setup. Until this engine is spec'd down to part #'s for every component it's built with there will not be parity.

I stand corrected then Chris.. I've been through the rulebook 100's of times and i only see 3 options so I guess in my old age, I am going blind, I copied and pasted the 525 option which also included in my note to you the reasoning why the "stock sealed" would be legal as with specs on the stock sealed motor(as per the 525 service manual) are 502 cu, 8.7 to 1 comp, and 5450 rpms which are allowed tolerances that fall under what is copy and pasted above.. Pay me no attention as i am just old and blind now..

Chris

The reason why each part isn't a specific manufacturer is for two reasons affordability each team has the choice as long as it fits into the specs, no one manufacturer can control the engine for the class. It doesn't seem like Superboat cladd has any problem at all they've been running spec SbI motor without a list of specific parts but they know what the tech rules are and their individual parts have to fit within the rules. No different then the super v unlimited they are running and SbI design spec motor without specific individual part numbers both classes have had no issues and as you know Superboat class has been very successful. I guess the only issue would be is the racers not the organizations if there is a racer that wants to cheat then so be it let him try if he gets caught he will pay the consequences and life goes on. I don't think it's the organizations that have an issue I think it's the racers if everyone follow the rules that will laid out in an official rule book we wouldn't be having this conversation. So the success of the class is up to the racers not the organizations, from what you are saying the racers are their worst enemies

Also just for the record you said the only thing they share is the same name and that's incorrect also. SBI is Super vee and OPA IS SVL. That's the great thing about having two different classes it gives people options, if a boat isn't competitive in one class it is competitive in another. If you cant afford to run one organization there's a cheaper and more affordable organization to run. Having choices in life is a great thing. That's one of the main reasons why is SBI is getting away from a proprietary motor such as mercury.

Chris

One last thing before I get back to work I won't keep you too long i know you're very busy you have to be you haven't taken my call on the last 3 months.

You say its not true spec racing because there is 4 different motors but if they all fit within the rule book what's the issue what's the difference who makes it weather at scorpion sterling Tyler you mercury it's all about affordability.

So I guess your suggestion is go to the SBI 510 moto take all the rest of the motors out and make everybody have to go buy new motors and spend 20 $30,000.

Let me ask you a question do NASCAR engines have individual part numbers in their rule book let me help you with that the answer is No the rule specify spec that it has to be a lot of teams will use individual parts that they are sponsored for or given by sponsors. This probably 20 different people building those motors to NASCAR specs what's the difference whose name is on it if NASCAR feels it meets the specs then it's illegal motor.

The mercury 525 is discontinued end of story it's gone it's antiquated, but as long as they exist and races have them and can keep them together SBI is not prepared to tell them they have to go out and buy a new equipment. They have laid the groundwork for the future of what the new motor is going to be there are four built now eventually the 5:25 will die off and teams will build new motors when they feel it's necessary but in the meantime all the motors will have to meet spec and be approximately the same horsepower.

Is $20,000 to $30,000 the price to build a competitive SBI motor now ? Is that with top of the line high end parts or just minimal quality low end spec parts. Not sure I agree the 525 Merc is antiquated. Yes you cant buy a new one from Merc but you certainly can rebuild one of the thousands out there with all new parts if you want. ALL THE PARTS ARE STILL AVALIABLE! Its a proven solid platform for racing at WOT for hours.

Randy,

You are correct, the Mercury 525 EFI was a great motor. In looking through the classified and FB powerboat swap shop, 525's asking prices are ballpark 20 G. That in addition to sending it to Merc for the rebuild in the 12 G range makes your legal motors 32 G. You of all have seen the damage(elimination) to 2 classes done by Mercury by discontinuing a motor. All SBI is trying to do is give you options, ie builders, parts, etc... What is the price of the Gen x CMI's vs the Mercury CMI's? What is the price of Crane Gold 1.7 rockers from Crane? from mercury? I'll fill you in, a huge difference.... IMO when you say high end parts vs low end parts, the performance is still the same, its the reliability that makes it a high end part... specs are specs, you can only get so much out of a certain spec... once again, WE have that option what part we use, where we cut corners(if we chose to) etc

You are a consumer, if you were to go out and buy a 2016 truck tomorrow, do you want a 2016 engine or would you be happy with a 2005 engine in it?

What makes a spec class spec is tech, you are happy with all the plethora of tech your motors go through in pre race, we are happy with ours

You are happy with your rules, congrats we applaud you and only wish you the best of success up there, I personally chose to do business with engine builders that support the racers, organizations and charge reasonable prices for the very same quality that Mercury has put out

The problem with that Randy is that a manufacturer building a new boat it's hard to him to sell the guy I used 525. But I agree with you I'm sure there will be parts around for a while.

Depending on the builder you can probably build a motor for 18 - $20,000. If you build ur own probably $16,000

Randy, the first time you see 10 svls racing your going to want to be apart of it. Mercury quit sending checks years ago, and the guys up North with 2 motors will eventually get tired of changing back to the 525 and going slower.

Whats another $20,000 in the boat racing world. Plus the world's greatest passenger has retired!

whatever

Mark, I agree with most of what you said. There is only one team LSB that has 2 motors and he likes racing in KW

heres youre real answer. :)

Randy you can convert your 525 according to the specs in the rulebook pretty simple it eqsy compression cubic inch and go to an MSD ignition.

You don't even have to buy a new motor it would probably cost you five or $6,000 converted ur motor. And the intakes and computers you take off and the throttle bodies are all saleable.

If you look at Steve M new motor it looks like a 525 with a carburetor on it.
SBI will never use 1 manufacturer or engine builder again if we do all we are doing is changing evils from Mercury to someone else. Once you have one proprietary builder and the prices start to creep up year after year we're right back in the same place we are now and have to find a new builder and change the rules again. I hope we learn something from history you don't need to repeat it again. The definition of an idiot is someone that does the same thing time after time and expect a different outcome.

This is a very simple motor to build it's based off of 502 block same as the 525 .

That all sounds good but then you still have the same problem with the RPM's with box being sealed. You have no way to monitor who was running what RPM and we know how easy it is to turn those boxes up.

Unfortunately it just doesn't work for SBI how are race is a very happy with the new package and having the options are running there 525 also.

One other thing that we looked at very carefully is parody now with the MSD ignition and the data loggers instead of having teams add weight or lower their drive which could possibly create handling problems its very simple just to lower their rpms 200. The data logger will tell the technicians exactly how many rpms they were running. You don't even have to stand over a team to make sure they change anything it's their call if they think they can get away with it so be it but the data logger doesn't lie. Also there is a ton of other information in the data logger that the technical team looks out also if a team is running extremely faster than the rest of the class they will know it can even tell your acceleration.

It is not specifically mercury it's being held hostage by anyone builder, that is suicide for the future. With the package SBI created like it or not there is no reason why the rule book should ever have to change again. It's a simple 502 block with affordable accessible components. Every motor builder that we have spoken with before we made this decision all agreed it was a no brainer. They all said the same thing keep it simple stupid.