Re: Race Teams ....a Solution
 

But if the race teams combine, wouldn't they then BE AN ORGANIZATION?!?!?:D

I see what you are saying and agree, but how do you prevent the racers' organization from falling victim to the same problems and politics that plague the current organizations?

Re: Re: Re: Race Teams ....a Solution
 

Actually that is the first thing I thought of. Jack sounds awfully pro labor for a businessman.:D :D :D

Yes, but then you have other problems. Illustration:

Where are most of the racers from? East Coast. What if the West and Gulf coast racers wanted more races in their backyard. East coast guys win. Solution = West and gulf coast racers form their own association = same old problem.

I am not trying to be difficult, but if you are going to avoid the problems that have plagued the sport in the past, these issues will have to be addressed. I think this is a good idea if it can be done in a representative and fair manner.

You guys are missing it.

1. This idea has been tried. It was called PROPS. Ted Saborise from INXS put it together. It lasted one year with no real affect on things.

2. To put on a race, a local club is needed that will work with local sponsors to raise the money needed to put on the event. THIS IS THE HARD PART.

3. You can't just say "we want a race in XXX" someone needs to get a sponsor to put up the money.

If you want to be a promoter, find a site, find a sponsor and then shop the event between the sanctioning bodies to see who will work with you the best.

There, see how easy that was........ NOT.

Cashbrain, I will support anything that will reduce costs and reduces aggravation

Cash, take the lead on this. Maybe you can do it better than Ted did several years ago.

It's a good idea, just hard to pull everyone together.

If an organization is in place that will bring some stability and credibility to the events everyone wins.
Sponsors will be more willing to step up to the plate, racers will be more willing to attend, and the fans will get a better show. This scenario will allow the sport to grow and become what it can and should be. Without it, The prognosis is not good, and there will be more of the foolishness that happened or is about to happen at Key West.

I was attempting to be constructive. If the new group is not set up in a fair manner that best addresses the needs of all, it will be no better than the one who's problems you are trying to solve.

Pure democracy doesn't work. Otherwise we would have them everywhere.

I would suggest there be no profit motive for the people running the show. Perhaps three geographical regions within which racers vote, and the two out of three rule as to decision making. I know this sounds confusing, but it would even out voting leaving no faction in absolute control.

Just my $.02 We have the best forum in the World here OSO Add someone like Jack and you can do anything.. this is something that has not existed before in Boat racing history..Step up to the times..

A place where logic and common sense can have input also.

Come on 4 WC's !!

CASH BRAIN

I agree with what you said. I belive the GREAT LAKES .
Is sort run like that, they have an elected board.
Most of them are racers,and they do a great job just ask any one who has raced here.

So Cash, are you going to actually do something or just let the idea die with this thread?

cb is definitely on to something here...

it may seem extreme, but what do you think would happen if all the race teams got together and sat out the 2004 season...and organized themselves for the 2005 season. ithink it would send a clear message to all the santioning bodies and race promotors that they have nothing without the racers and to put their respective houses in order.

this sport has really gone downhill and I think pat weisman and dave scott said it best when they indicated that the sport lost it's appeal when money got involved. (i'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth...that's my interpretation of their comments)

i'm not against people making money, but the santioning bodies should treat their organizations as non-profit...invest the money back into the business to help it grow. remember without racers, you have nothing. you need to provide them with a reliable product(guaranteed race sites with no cancellations/changes)...

i know there's alot more to this an i'm certainly no expert, but clearly something needs to be done. i wish i had the anwsers...

The racers are getting together, they formulate common goals and ways to reach the goals.

See

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...threadid=57861

Personally, I don't think the world needs yet another group to promote races. Looking at the month of November, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of people who want to organize races.

just a thought and observation
 

One thing you guy's have to realize is we don't have a private facilty to race in. We're in public waters dealing with manatees , turtles and eviromentalists. Most fans watch the races for free and yea I hate to admit it but offshore racing is boring to watch. The spectators have no idea what's going on! A super cat can go by at 135 mph and it looks like it's going 50 mph. So let's face it , we're not NASCAR , IRL or the NHRA. APBA Offshore has provided us with the best safety crew and some darn good race sites this year. It's just not as easy as you think it is to organize any of these events. Hey we're back in St Pete, Sarasota and we go to Orange Beach instead of Key West - I'm ok with that . Thanks again to the staff of APBA Offshore and The Stars Rescue Team. And remember offshore racing is alot like the high performance boating business , when it's time to write the check other priorities usually prevail.

Brian Hollis
www.JokerPowerBoats.com
P5-33 Throttles

They are doing this. They are already meeting. And they are already meeting in Florida. Anybody interested, come to the Lauderdale meeting.

It also would help to hang out where the racers hang out: http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/f...?s=&forumid=76

Hey Guy's

I may be missing something but APBA ,and I'm not talking about the LLC, is controlled by the racers if you excercise your right as a member, attend the annual meetings held every year you can make changes. If you don't attend you miss a valuable resourse of your membership. If the racers showed up in force you could have a powerful voice that is legally binding. Every category in APBA except Offshore and Unlimiteds still vote on their category chair and each region vote on thier representatives. This is what we have been fighting for tho keep it so APBA stays a membership organization. The LLC is APBA only because they bought the use of the name and the control over the Offshore category. So you already have the power to make change you just have to learn how to use it.

Grin

P.S. I forgot to include from the APBA By-Laws under memberships: Section 4.3 Active Members. Any person or other entity may apply for an avtive membership provided the BOD or it's designate commitee deems such applicant sufficiently qualified, by vertue of experience and training, as a driver, crewmember, official, or other participant, or who was otherwise deemed to be interested in and willing to participate in the active-furthering of the aims and purposes of the Association, upon payment of dues for active members established by the BOD.

Cash
A good idea, but not as simple as it sounds. First off I have a big problem with telling a man how to run his business. Its there money and time they have invested.
Having said that, as racers we are a big part of his business, and to treat us like mushrooms (kept in the dark and feeding us $hit) is unacceptable.
Alot of this mess could have been avoided if we were kept informed. They knew they had problems with Key west at least by when we were at the Sarasota race. Why didnt they say something then instead of jackin us around and screwing up 100's if not 1000's of peoples plans, and costing us a bunch of $???????
Oh thats right...it wasnt there plans or money.
They (the LLC BOD) made a decision then that affected us all, and as someone else said this isnt the first time. or even the 5th.
All we heard was how the great 8 year plan is right on track. And the whole world is rosey. That BULL$hit has to stop!!
If they would be honest and up front with everyone and not be too egotistical to admit things aint goin so good,,,, people/racers.... other then the same few that post on OSO would be much more inclined to understand and let things pass.
A racers rep that does no more then pass information and ideas to the respective BOD's of LLC and SBI may be a good idea, but it wont work if the truth isnt passed back.
If you dont like what I just said...blame it on Gino's dog

Dan
F1-83 Screamin Eagle

The issue......give the racers a voice.

It's been done before......and , as Grin said, is the basis for the American Power Boat Assoc.... a democratic national organization that relies on elected officials and rules ballots. It is broken up into divisions to give the category members a more direct voice in the issues that affect them.

Sounds good right?.......Then what's the problem?

Simple........ You can't please everybody...... and most importantly, in any racing endeavour, somebody has to win ...... and somebody(s) have to lose. When these competitive somebodys lose, they tend to get loud and obstinate in direct proportion to how much money and power they, as individuals, possess.

The result ranges from:

(1) Demands for more classes so that losers have more opportunities to win... (see today's 20 or so offshore "Alphabet" classes)...... These exist purely to allow more first place flags and trophies....and NOTHING else.

(2) Demands for more sanctioning bodies so that losers have more avenues to win by avoiding guys with the same class of boat in another sanctioning body.

(3) Demands for infinite rule changes so that wealthy (and frequently untalented) guys can have a custom million dollar "unique" boat with their own "unique" power plants that are calculated to utterly dominate anybody else on a normal budget (no matter the talent level).

(4) Demands from "sponsors" from the marine industry, who want to stack the deck in their favor and extract marketing advantages from the sport, without giving a thought to its future. (I exempt only Mercury Marine, and Sunoco from this category as their long term commitment and product development has been highly beneficial to the sport itself and the racers individually.)

(5) Demands from local Chambers of Commerce, whose motive is to fill hotel beds and restaurants with (mostly) racers and their families, and those few souls who are naive enough to think that this "sport" is remotely for real. These guys are usually slick enough to corrupt even the TV programs with a "travelogue" segment touting the advantages of their "area" (usually a reclaimed Southern swampland decimated by greedy and short sighted land developers).

So........... into this mess steps "promoters" who take money from every "specially interested" ,but short sighted, party above to make a buck. This has created a sport that is..... sadly..... based on prostitution...... and you folks have become little more in their eyes than wealthy and gullible "John's" ( both the hooker customer version and the porcelain flushable kind).

What is the answer........?

A true leader........ with a vision...based on authentic, in your face boat racing as the goal. This involves a few closely contested classes with guys who are dedicated enough that they have the grit to come in second or twentieth, and react only by doing better with their efforts at the next event. That product doesn't need a marketing director...or a "business development" committee..

Nope....That product will sell itself.

Good Luck Cash Brain..... I admire your intent.



T2x............. Just playin' his ol' 45's

P.S. Think Steve David........ Steve David..... Steve David..
There now, wasn't that easy?

Cash,

You have my support as well... One thing to add, mabey each racing class could be represented in this group.... That might help the problem with the idea of big money teams running everything in the end ??

Im willing to help for what I can ???


Dave

You are all on track with some great ideas! This what a post should be. I like the people that have ideas on this board and ask for input. I would also say that each class has a rep. that should be involved in some of the decisions that APBA makes. If all APBA has to do is contact these 10 people that rep there class it makes it much easyer for APBA to keep people informed.
I am also concerned of the lack of response from some classes on a lot of issues that are disscussed on this board. Where is SV,SVL,Super-Cat and Super-Cat lite? What is going on in there minds? I can only say that they must have no problems with what is going on! Guys you are only making it worse be not writing your opinions. They don't have to be negative lets here what you like.
We need to help APBA as a group and hope they here us and except our opinions.I take my hat off to Mike A every time I read these posts. I TRULY BELIEVE WITH ALL MY HART MIKE A. IS TRYING TO MAKE THIS SPORT WORK. I think it is a huge,huge task to run a race. Maybe we can take some of the load off him with better communication.