Re: Boat racing or GPS speed watching
 

My opinion is that a combination of average lap speeds and a handful of well thought out technical rules is vastly superior to GPS, without the additional costs and logistics of placing equipment in each boat. In addition to the performance issues Peconic states above, GPS has a huge limitation in that it cannot compensate for water currents or wind. It also does little to deter sandbagging as stated by 1Hyper1.

SBI is on the right track by using maximum average lap speeds and a formula that is supposed to place a boat in a class. For example, P5 is limited to 65 mph average lap speeds. If you had a boat that could run 5000 rpm, 1.5 drive ratio, 23" prop, you would theoretically never break out in the class if the laps are measured accurately. You race as hard as you can each time and you should never be penalized. If you do break out, and the times are accurate, and the course was measured reasonably well, you were simply caught cheating.

My opinion on P class is that it is for weekend warriors in pleasure boats and older raceboats that don't qualify for a spec class or are no longer competitive in a spec class. Building a new P class boat seems silly when there are spec classes out there.

Right now I've noticed that there are at least 4 slightly different rules for P class in various sanctioning bodies. It is ironic in that the P classes were intended to make all the local, divisional, club classes, etc., consistent:

APBA - supposed to be max speed in ideal conditions, GPS, infractions result in boat finishing last
GLSCS - time penalties for each mph on GPS over max speed, same brackets as APBA
OPA - uses same speed brackets as APBA, but boats are classified based on performance in ocean conditions, not ideal conditions, time penalty for GPS infractions
SBI - based on same speed brackets, but uses a maximum allowable lap speed, kind of like a theoretical best average speed that could be obtained running at the maximum speed allowed for the bracket. Penalized boats finish last.

(Note: I'm not criticizing any organization's rules, just pointing out that they are different, or at least can be interpreted differently.)

In addition to the max average lap speeds, it would really be great if the lap speeds were "handicapped" to incorporate the effects of water conditions. For example, if a boat can run a specific max lap speed in ideal conditions (say a 1' chop), it is reasonable to assume that in 3' seas the lap speeds would be slower. Race officials could assign a condition to the course which would effectively lower the allowed lap speeds.

Another positive thing about using lap speed is that sandbagging is much more difficult. Looking down at your GPS the entire race wouldn't do you any good. A stop watch might help sandbag, but that is remedied by varying the actual race course slightly + or - in distance on race day.

Some of the very limited spec rules that could apply would be things such as prop limitations and maximum length.

IMHO

Re: Boat racing or GPS speed watching
 

There is an opportunity for significant improvement in the P-Class rules and for class consolidation. Whatever the suggestion, keep it simple. It is clear to me the sanctioning bodies don't really want to manage this process.

Re: Boat racing or GPS speed watching
 

Yup, it's called a poker run.

Re: Boat racing or GPS speed watching
 

I think we can beat this horse until Dooms_day. THe fact of the matter is that we need to get together as a group and come together. All the sanctioning bodies hurt the sport more than help it. We need to do everything we can to get boats to races. Each group is doing whatever they can to attract boats. Common rules agreed on by the groups would help. THat is the main issue. Not the GPS... or Average lap speed or what ever.

Andrew D. Bloom
GLSCS Chairman

Re: Boat racing or GPS speed watching
 

Phantom...Good one :D

For P Class, GPS is the only way to keep it fair. It may not be 100%, but it's all we've got. So, as long as everyone agrees with the results of GPS readings, there should be no complaints. Granted, if there are really crazy and unrealistic readings, something needs to be done. Which is why avg lap speeds need to be taken as well. Just in case.

Q Ball is right with regard to spec classes. But, some of us cant afford to get into them and there are too many race boats out there that are still running that need to fit into a class. The only way to solve this problem is to add more classes which I dont believe we will see in the near future.

If it did happen, I would suggest an up to 25 foot (entry level) class and a single engine up 30 foot class max 80 mph.

Re: Boat racing or GPS speed watching
 

My strictly personal opinion, and I might be totally off-base: Bracket racing had and will have its place as a feeder for real racing - for want of a better word. The concept of bracket racing was developed to give local boat owners the chance to participate. Everybody knew that sorting boats into speed brackets is not the epitome of racing. Everybody knew that a dual engine 38footer running against a single engine 26footer if P4 ain’t very fair. The idea, and the intent was to show everybody a good time, and maybe to infect some with the incurable racing bug, to find out who has the commitment, time, money and gumption for a full racing year. And then to move them to the spec classes. We are looking forward to having a good time with the Boyz in AC, GPS or none.

But trust me: Abusing the GPS the way it is being abused now is far from fair. It simply turns racing into more of a lottery than it already is. If the GPS would be used that way for writing speeding tickets, it would be thrown out of the lowest court and never admitted again.

Re: Boat racing or GPS speed watching
 

so you dont believe P class is racing? i have been racing for about 2 years now and am a bit put off by that comment. i know the class has its own issues but it definetly has a place in offshore racing.



gig 3 I agree it would be nice to have some common rules between the groups. i know parity in P class has been somthing you guys at GLSCS have been working towards.

Re: Boat racing or GPS speed watching
 

Glassdave: It sure is racing, and we are happy doing it. And as mentioned above, it sure has its place.

Re: Boat racing or GPS speed watching
 

Good points overall, I cant race and watch a GPS during a race it takes the fun away. Average lap speeds seem to work out for me because I have my boat set up to run that way without having to look at a GPS. Strictly my personal opinion on the GPS issue.

Albert

Re: Boat racing or GPS speed watching
 

I can tell you that Team Taboo would like to race for overall in class when APBA & SBI race together,but in sbi we are about 4mph slower. In Sarasotta this last weekend the course was so fast that we had to watch our GPS or break out(13 miles of speed .2 of a mile slower) We built our boat for 99% of the races we could run flat out, but some courses and flat water you just have to slow down. You are right it isn't as much fun. Bill M.