River Tax !!!!
 

:rolleyes: You gotta be kidding me !!!!!!!!!!!!!

every successful city in the country is based around water... lakes ocean, river etc.... and all cool cities have developed this area.

What a disgrace. I was in shock. What a joke.

How in the hell could you not want this area developed? North Tulsa must have more idiots than I already thought.... stupid a holes :rolleyes:

Now opened up to private developers.... yeah right, 5 years of approvals and BS to go through only to have all the north Tulsan shade picketing your office. :violent-smiley-045:

You think the local governments would not screw it up!!! Come on what has government ever not screwed up.

In addition several items listed were already included in the 2025 proposal already passed.

Don't get me wrong I agree the river should be developed but not by the people that gave us the welfare system, our current streets and brides, etc...

The city would have not done it. They would have had private people develop it with the city's backing. Private developers would have the city's support as now they will have to get the city's approval and all sorts of BS. Any developer that gets in bed with them now will have to wait 10 years to make any real money AND have to listen to all those idiots telling them how to do it.

Every big city in the country has crappy roads in some areas, crappy schools in some areas and crime in some areas. There will always be a bad section of Tulsa... the focus has to be on making more good sections.

Oh I guess no one would have spent any money on the new riverwalk area and none of that money would have spilled over into the city's coffers either :rolleyes:

The River development would have snowballed this city into one of the nicest in the counrty.

They are more worried about potholes on 21st than developing the diamond in the rough... small minded idiots. I was in SHOCK when I saw the vote. Small minded idiots and low income dirtbags came to the polls.... kudos to them for prying the low lifes out of the gutter to vote.
This was the one chance to get the city behind a development plan and then have them supporting the project, along with the city.

Now the low lifes will crab abd b1tch when they are paying tax on the undeveloped property along the river... retards.

I was in shock as well, I couldn't imagine anyone noting wanting this kind of development. I know it is a tax, however I would look at it as investment of tax dollars the would reap huge benefits and a very nice return in tax sales tax dollars coming back in.

Last night's vote was a huge step back for Tulsa's economy and future. The worse part is the people who fought it the most, would have gotten most of this tax back at the end of the year in the form of a rebate if you were over 62 or made less than $50K.

Now without this extra income for the city, taxes from new jobs, more people spending money at the river, and the many other ways this would have increased the tax base, where do they think they are going to get the money to fix the roads? The magic money tree outside. Close minded, short thinking people are going to be the downfall of this city. Whatever we do, let's not think more than 2 years down the road.:rolleyes:

Stupid people. Chris Medlocks mom lives 2 doors down from me and he is one of the biggest idiots there is. I am ashamed that he is a Republican. He was one of the leaders against this thing, and while he campaigns to the north Tulsa low income, welfare people, neither he nor his mom live anywhere close to that area.

I am so disappointed by the uninformed I could be sick.

Many cities spend millions creating a river through their town so they can have a river walk. WE ALREADY HAVE THE RIVER. We are just too stupid to utilize it. Instead, lets build a stadium in downtown that is still not big enough to attract large acts plus there is still no parking in downtown and you will probably get shot if you out there after dark.

Way to go Tulsa


Phucking morons.

OK, my rant is done for now.

I dont live in tulsa but i do go there alot and i think North tulsans need to clean their own places properties up first. that is dissapointing because the riverwalk is a nice place to go just imagine if it was bigger.

They need to put up a wall along Admiral and stop police patrols over there, just let them kill themselves off and then take it back when they are done.

Either that or annex it ad give it to Owasso. Let it be their problem.

With this tax at least we could say we knew where a small portion was going.... not vanishing into pot holes on 21st or scraping the gum off the bus stop bench in boog-ville.. Watching the news here is a joke. matt, go **** on that guys' lawn next to you.

Pretty brutal. I thought it would pass by a landslide.

Catering to the stupid low lifes got that idiot elected. What a douche bag. Find out where he lives and I am going to out ads in the paper in Browntown he is having a yard sale every weekend for the rest of the year.

yea owasso was throwing a fit about it too because they said it wouldnt help them so i agree give north tulsa to owasso

Tulsa already has higher sales tax than Dallas, kc or st louis. You can't come here or leave with out paying a toll. The crooks always come up with these great ideas as to why we should raise our taxes for a few years but when the time comes the tax NEVER comes off. I also was surprised that it didn't pass. Normally all you have to do is tell the narrowed minded people of tulsa that it is for our CHILDREN, for our ROADS or for our FUTURE and everyone bends over, votes yes and gets fuked! Why would anybody want higher taxes? I wish they would just keep raising the taxes to 100% than the goverment could take care of me! :mad:

There you have it! Narrow minded :rolleyes: Move to Mars where there are no taxes..... every city has taxes just for the city... if you want to live in the City limits, you are going to pay city taxes no matter what... might as well have a nice city with a Riverwalk.

Dallas is one of the worst sh1t holes in the country..... one major reason why? THEY WONT DEVELOP around the Trinity River. Dallas is a dump.

Dallas County is:

40% black and climbing
40% hispanic and climbing
20% white and declining

I developed a huge community outside of Dallas that was annexed into the city limits a few years ago while I was developing it.... what a joke.

City tax that improves the City is called pride in your city, if you dont support city improvement,move out!

Don't dump north Tulsa on me! We in Owasso never did anything. Especially since we didn't even get to vote on this thing cause we live 5 ft into Rogers county.

The problem with these tax proposals is that they never go away after the project is done. I lived in Kansas City when they proposed the Bi-State tax to fix up union station. After that was all done, the government voted to keep the tax going for other purposes. The people had no say after that. Not to mention that Union Station was supposed to be a Science Center, but in reality it is a kids play land. If this had passed, the riverwalk project would have turned into something else that the money would be needed for and so on. We would never see the money again, and our taxes would continue to go up up up. Then, a year from now, they would ask for a tax increase for something else.

Thats exactly right! Remember a few years back when they raised our taxes for a new jail. Our grand kids will still be paying that tax 50 years from now. What a joke.

From an email I just got.

In elections people have their choice. I don't have to like other's
choices, and they don't have to like mine. They certainly won't like
this one. But I am angry, particularly at the citizens of Broken Arrow,
led by their loser Mayor, Wade McCaleb. He said on the news last night
that his community came out 4-to-1 opposed to the river plan. 4-to-1!
O.K. Broken Arrow, let's have a little talk you free loading
sons-of-*****es. BA has a nice community because of Tulsa. People make
money in Tulsa and move out to BA because they can get more bang for
their buck in housing. Citizens of BA still commute to Tulsa for their
nice jobs, using and deteriorating our streets and infrastructure, which
they did not pay for because it comes from city taxes.
Then, when a chance to really improve the entire community presents
itself, those losers refuse to tip the horse and carriage that got them
to where they are. Nobody likes taxes, but sometimes they are levied
for the greater good. But to come out and lobby so tirelessly against a
plan that will benefit everybody shows a complete lack of foresight and
judgment, likely motivated by political expediency. In other words, no
spine to do the right thing.
And the result was this loss for Tulsa County, which will have an
adverse effect on my quality of life over the next several years, as
well as that of my kids. It will also hurt my pocketbook.
So, if you won't chip in a few bucks to make the life of my community
better, then I won't chip in to yours. I will never spend another dime
in Broken Arrow. Not that it is a difficult decision. I don't need a
lame cookie cutter house, or brave sh***y traffic to have my selection
of a myriad of chain restaurants. And I've got my own movie theatres
and car dealerships.

Broken Arrow....Where Losers go to Fail !

That is where I take Shelbi to use the bathroom. She won't go in her own yard,

Another closed minded individual.:rolleyes:

Think about this again when little Jayhawk grows up and has to move out of state because there are no more good jobs here. The tax averaged out to like $60 per year. Are you telling me that is going to break anyone? Get over yourselves. You hear the work TAX and you instantly think the worst. You need to educate yourselves on a topic before you go spouting off against it.

We also kissed $50 million away that a company out of Branson had already promised to us to help design and develop the river, I guess the taxes that money would have provided can just be plucked from that great money tree again.

Also, for these taxes to be extended past the expiration date, it does have to go to a vote of the people. If the people shoose to extend it, they can

Masher is right about Dallas too. It is a dump. There is a reason everyone has moved to Plano and surrounding areas.

I guess I wasn't done ranting yet after all.

One good thing is he did not get elected last time so he already campaigning for next time.

I'll be the first to say I don't know much about what was happening with this particular project as we didn't get a lot of info here in Rogers county and I don't watch the local news much. Again, I didn't have a vote in it in any event.

That being said, I'm not sure it is closed minded to cringe about more taxes so much as it is I've seen how these things go. My example of the the KC Union Station issue is a direct parallel to this one. The Union Station project has failed to be anything it was supposed to be and was a complete waste of taxpayer dollars. I can't say that the riverwalk would be a failure, but Union Station was and is.

My question would be why can't the money come from taxes already paid? I would wager there is enough waste in local government that the money required to kick this off could be found by scrutinizing the budgets and streamlining. Is this likely to happen? Of course not. Unfortunately we are just supposed to accept that and keep paying without any accounting for it.

Also, I'm not sure what jobs the Riverwalk would bring to Tulsa. Again, I haven't researched it, so I may be talking out my butt here. It seems that Riverwalk jobs are going to be restaurants and that type of thing. Are you saying that if we build a Riverwalk, industry will begin to want to be here?

In my opinion, if we want industry and companies to come here and provide jobs, we need to give them tax incentives to do so. If we can get industry here in that manner, then we can begin to take in real tax dollars at the same rates due to more people in the community, and more disposable income from all the people here.

I'd be all for this city making itself better and becoming more prosperous, but I'm not sure I agree that a city can tax its way to prosperity.

wow so many different levels of stupid.....

Yeah lets be like Dallas and all sorts of great corporate business will come in, set up shop and then LIVE in the suburbs like South Lake, Frisco and Plano... even Plano is almost a joke now. NO ONE lives in Dallas itself unless you have major bucks.... Highland or University Park.. even then it is scary at night becuase they are public streets.

Tulsa would not see much disposable income. They will be in the suburbs under the jayhawk model.

When you build a community from scratch you need to have a great draw to the community ie common facility... Something that the people take pride in and they will pay for it. This riverwalk was Tulsa's ticket into stardom.

Jobs????? As opposed to what now? the guy who picks up cans along the riner now or the guy who mows the lawns? :rolleyes: 100s of retail opportunities and most importantly the companies that would support the new development.... landscaping, vendors and yes restaurant emplyment....

This would have been the common thread for success in Tulsa. I am sure this Union Station wasnt a failure just because it was... the idea I am sure was solid and someone screwed it up from there. I have never seen a place like the Riverwalk fail in any other city.

Taxes suck.. but there are good taxes as well and are inevitable in any substantial city.

If you gave a tax break to Exxon Mobil to move its headquarters here, who do you think makes up for the tax break????? please see the failed dallas model once again.

Dallas... lots of jobs, sh1t hole place to live so you have to move an hour away and commute, two hours most days because of the retarded traffic. DUMP!

Maybe Jayhawk is right... just dip into the big piggy bank of the city and use 250 million of it to develop the river :rolleyes:

what is the population of BA vs the rest of Tulsa County?

C'mon now, no need to call me stupid. I'm not.

I guess if we aren't to model ourselves after larger more successful cities, then what are we modeling ourselves after? What is it that we want Tulsa to become? I'm not being a smarta**, just trying to understand. If we want the city to be successful, would we not want more industry and more jobs? I think it will be difficult to become a destination for people and tourism and growth and still maintain a small town image.

As far as suburbs, Tulsa city limits has its own suburbs in addition to the other smaller ones like Jenks, Bixby, and Owasso.

Giving a tax break to a large company to come in is more than paid for by the additional income and people in the community having newer and better jobs and using their higher level of disposable income. Trickle Down economics works. It always has.

As far as the project goes, yes the construction of such would provide more work for the duration of the project. Once it is done, are we then counting on it to spur more companies to come in and build? If so, build what? If we are talking about major companies moving in based on the riverwalk, what will keep the new people from living in the burbs? Doesn't the scenario end in the same manner you described?

In all honesty, I think one of the things that hurt the chances of this passing was the 2025 tax just a few years ago. Many things that were promised in that package haven't happened. it was supposed to bring big companies here, and it hasn't thus far. I'm not sure it even generated much interest outside of Tulsa. My guess would be that many people were left with a bad taste in their mouth wondering if this wasn't the next thing to not work.

I believe the big reason why it didnt pass wasnt the pitch, it was the pitch man. The person heading it up was Randi Miller and everytime she opened her mouth I would just shake my head.

Let there be no doubt, we weren't beat by the bible banging conservatives but by the lazy ass mofo's who don't want to spend 1/4 of a penny to help there city prosper. Hell that would take away from their meth money. I know Randi Miller is a bad front person but I bet we make a better choice next time. I'm off my soap box now. I'm gonna have a beer and pack for Exuma since I don't have the River project to look forward to!

Sad Day for Tulsa!
Biggest private contribution to a public project in the history of the US! Jobs, tourism dollars, and economic opportunity for the entire area pissed away.
I hate taxes, but this tax benefited everybody, directly and indirectly.
Roscoe Turner on the front page of the Tulsa paper smiling that the tax was defeated. So whats Roscoe's plan? He has no plan. Just an aginer{got no plan, just against this plan} Another example of Tulsa's dysfunctional city council. A united endorsement from the city council for this proposal would have been an economic windfall for Tulsa. San Antonio TX, Memphis TN, & Oklahoma City, OK,{hell, they dug a ditch!} have all experienced an economic influx that benefited the entire community from river/ditch development
Its like my dad always told me {in the spirit of you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink} "you can offer a man 5 dollars, but you can't make him take it"

all im gonna say on this topic is that Tulsan's are scared since we didnt get half the **** promised to us in the 2025 vote. I was 110% behind the river tax.

Pissed off, to say the least.. back to spending my wintertime weekends (and money) in bricktown..

Thanks Tulsa.. :rolleyes:

If I was a local contractor living in Tulsa , i would be questioning why all the new buildings ect. funded by 2025 have been handed to the two largest general contractors in Tulsa,very very POLITICAL!!! I honestly dont know how the city is doing this legally, construction management contracts??? None of the many others are getting even a smell!!

RareBreed is absolutely right on this. This was all about the politics, broken promises, and underhanded(under the table) contracts etc. Kathy Taylor and her bunch aren't really for Tulsa people or Tulsa Contractors. What would be a better deal would be to make the areas adjacent to the the river a special tax zone and raise the taxes from that area alone instead of taxing Owasso, North Tulsa, BA etc. It is a very god idea but the outlying communities would have recieved no direct benefit, just promises of benefits. Taylor's crew did an awful job presenting this thing to the population and it did remind me of the KC tax for Union Station. Politics :(