20fter in big waves?
 

Ok here goes I have been around boats most of my life but they were like 12' 15' boats so when you have big waves you stay home right?
Now 6 yrs ago I buy a 1980 F20 FORMULA and lots of people tell me she will yake big waves do to the DEEP V design she's a cuddy cabin nice deep V-birth no delta pad decent strakes ect ect SO why is it that the 3' 4' 5' 6' rollers I was in today make it almost impossible to drive on plane without thinking your gona die! And yet it loves 1' 2' chop and I mean loves it!! like were taling nice smooth ride and good speed in the 70 mph range!

Any ideas I would love to hear them.

When you start getting into the bigger rougher water it is all about size and hull design, a 20' boat in 3-5 footers is gonna beat you up either way, you need to get into a 28 or better that is built for the rough, Cig-Apache-fountain-A/T and so on, have somebody with a proper setup take you for a ride and you will know the difference. JMO

Think in scale, your spanning waves in a 20' boat, how hard can you really run a 40' boat in 6 to 12's??? Yet a 40 foot boat would eat up 2 to 4 footers.....

OK I get the jist of the 20' not being able to make contact with next wave coming because it just falls into the troth before reaching the top of the next wave. So does this mean when other guys are boasting that there 19' 20' 21' 22' 23 will eat up 3 to 4 foot waves and they say they are running 50 60 or more they are full of well you know ?

So if I'm hear this right a need to buy a bigger boat to keep boating in lake MI when she gets ruff ?

If somebody is really going 60 in true 4's in a 20' boat... they need this..

You got it! Just be careful not to get caught in the rough stuff very often. I take my 22' Donzi on Lakes Huron and Erie all the time but when it kicks up it is a real handful. There is just not enough length to stay on top of the waves and not enough freeboard to prevent stuffs. Great Lakes waves are not like ocean waves either; They are unpredictable. We wear vests and keep a water tight emergency box on board with the cells, vhf, gps, etc.

Oh, and yeah, what you said about the guys claiming to run 60 in true 4 footers. Maybe on the ocean though because they are more like rollers and spaced out.

Any guy who claims he's bustin' 3-4ft waves on the big lakes at 50mph with a 19ft boat either can't measure, or doesn't have a properly functioning speedo. My old 24fter wouldn't take 4 footers at high speed, my 35 will do it, but its not comfortable. The only thing that will make 4+ft waves easy on you is displacement... ya gotta crush em with weight. That's why you always see the 40ft cruisers doing so well in the big stuff. They just run the waves over.

Ok guys thanks for the information next question is it took a ton of work to get my as we call old resin bucket to get in the 70 mph range how hard will it be to get a 27' 28' to run the same? want to stay with a single engine.

A 27 ZR with a 525 EFI will run over 80. It still won't conquer Lake Michigan on a windy day though.

Went to watch the poker run a couple years back and 5-6 footers kept more than half the boats in the harbor! We watched the boats from the safety of the card stop on White Lake.
The kevlar Baja, Poker Face, ran!

Best bet with that size single to run 70 would be a fountain fever 27 or 29, Powerquest silencer, sunsation 288, donzi as previously mentioned... etc... there are many options... but a 496ho or preferably 500EFI will be needed for power along with a labbed prop on some of the boats. I'm not a big fan of boats that big with a single engine due to the fact that the twins are much smoother and easier to maneuver. The extra motor and drive contributes more weight that is needed to run hard on the big water for longer periods of time. Don't be afraid of twins they can be intimidating but are superior for the type of boating you're referring to. Good luck!

It depends on the waves. Spacing, rollers, chop, consistent, etc.

I have been in a 19' boat running BIG water in Lake Michigan but they were rollers and there was huge spacing between them. So, they were more like "jumps" than waves.

I have also ran bigger water when the waves are very close together and I could get on top of them. If the spacing gets further apart it's a whole different ball game.

Most of the time a small boat just doesn't have the length to span them or the weight to crush them. You just need to safely learn the limits of your hull.

Ok thanks for the info guys :-)

I have a 47 Fountain and it runs great; however, there is water on the Great Lakes that is no fun. I just ran across from Illinois to Michigan on Saturday of Labor Day weekend and it was terrible. Bottom line is that no matter what boat you have, you have to choose the right days and on other days it's better to stay home or do something else.

[QUOTE=ajfisher;3206283]Best bet with that size single to run 70 would be a fountain fever 27 or 29, Powerquest silencer, sunsation 288, donzi as previously mentioned... etc... there are many options... but a 496ho or preferably 500EFI will be needed for power along with a labbed prop on some of the boats. I'm not a big fan of boats that big with a single engine due to the fact that the twins are much smoother and easier to maneuver. The extra motor and drive contributes more weight that is needed to run hard on the big water for longer periods of time. Don't be afraid of twins they can be intimidating but are superior for the type of boating you're referring to. Good luck!

Agreed! The only Plus to a single in a 29ft boat is the easy access if you like to "Tinker". I was looking at a 29ft Baja with a single 525 at a shop I use and I couldn't believe the room it had, you could play handball in there! I have a small 24ft Baja, and its really tight for a fat azz like me, and the twins I have looked at [except for the staggered set ups in 40ft+ boats] looked really tight as well.I boat in the St Lawrence river/Lake Ontario and if it gets rough I head for home! On nice days its more than enough boat for what I do. Although I agree you CANT beat twins for the handling.

Michael

Well said :)

There's some compromise here, that the better riding 28's are typically the flat bottom, traditional rigs (Pantera, Active Thunder, Powerplay), and the faster ones are the stepped hull newer rides (Sunny 288, Donzi 28, Fountain 29). Actually, the South Fl boats with flat hulls are all true 28's, and bigger boats than the step boats w/ built in swim platforms.

So, to go 80 in a boat that'll be comfortable on the great lakes in a 28, you'll need bigger power. Or, you can ride rough and go 80, that one day a year the weather's nice! There are lots of 288's and Fountains that are faster than my PP......until the water's rough.

I've ran w/ a 288 and by a Fountain 29 in 2-3's where the non-boat people on my boat noticed the pounding those guys were taking as they sipped their beers.:drink:

Oh, and my boat w/ a single 500 runs 67/68 w 3 people, 1/4 tank of gas. It has more in it w/ a labbed prop I'm sure. An Active Thunder 28 will run 72/73 w/ a 525 I think. So, it doesn't take outrageous power to do 70ish.

I think to run the speeds your talking on lake Michigan, your days would have to be pretty selective in a 20ft boat...I've got a Baja Boss 275 and Lake Michigan is my playground...but I've chosen to stay in port on quite a few days as well...that lake isn't anything to mess with when those waves kick up. If they're 2 - 4 footers we could deal with it...but you do have to watch your speed...the fun thing is sometimes we take a good splash over the bow and we all get cooled off...rollers are the best...but again, that lake has a tendency to start throwing some unpredictable "chit" at you...one time before I knew it, I was in a total fog white-out in not so good weather...scooched my butt home via my GPS...but it could have gotten ugly real quick. I've yet to see any powerboat of any size handle that lake when it's temperamental...at least not without sacrificing something. My buddy was out running hard hopping waves..until his radio literally popped out of his dash and just missed his head...

yeah i hear ya went out again last sun and had fun in the places where I could find 1' 2' chop but the further out I got the bigger the waves got and before I knew it we were in 4' 5' rollers again not so much fun
I play around in the setons bay area and lee point head to power island now and then clinch park some east bay some but mainly stick to the west bay side.

Over on this side we can always head for Brown's Bar :) .

Is it on the water?

Yesireebob! On Harsens island at the end of the middle channel.

For where you live you need a bigger ruff water boat, a 28 Saber would be perfect. I stuffed my old 36 Apache trying to get around the point from north port to leeland. I did feel to bad, the 50' nor tech that was next to me stuffed and took off his wind deflector. My 41 would have been a better fit for that day. 38' will span most waves on th great lakes. If you went with twins a 28 Apache or a 31 Cigarette Bullet would be great for you area. I used to bring my 21 wellcraft up that way for the air show years ago and that bay beat the crap out of me and my boat.

I keep my 32' Fountain in Traverse City west bay. Back in late August we took the boat to Frankfort for a few days. That week was some of the biggest water I've seen on the Great Lakes and yes we stayed in the harbor.

What you're looking for woud be a good boat for the bay most days but for the big water you may want alternate plans.

Well I'm looking at the 288 Sunsations I think it's called the S 288 looks kinda like there version of a Baja.
Joe says it will handel some good size waves and has decent top speed for a stocker with lots of options for increased speed down the road.

+1 if you want to stay single power there are some great traditional 24 degree deadrise 28's out there that are good size boats that will run 70 with 500HP in normal Great Lakes water. I am very pleased with my 28 Pantera and have owned up to a 38 Top Gun in the past for reference. Also as someone mentioned earlier it's nice when there is room to sit in the bildge with the motor in your lap!

A 288 is a nice boat, but recall it's including a swim platform so it's a bit smaller than 28. The S series is a little lighter (fewer options, amenities and lighter layup I think) and has a higher X dimension I think. They do run fast, but for rough water boating wouldn't be my first pick.

Comparing a Sunsation to a Baja... w t f is the world coming to.....

288's take some waves for sure.

I thought it was a fair comparison...

Pantera would also be a great pick for that section of water.

Small craft advisory for Lakes Erie and St. Clair tomorrow. Still might go for it.

I meant it kinda looks like a Baja didn't by any means say it performed like one !
I have been to the Sunsation factory and met with Joe he is a very nice guy and they sound like they did there home work and keep doing it to come up with new ideas.

I'm running a rather high X dimension on my formula (4") so I know what that means when encountering big waves. So what type of boat should I look at then for lake MI area running?

Why a Pantera ? What is so different about that type of boat? what about a 1987 Baja force 27' found one for sale looks ruff now as far as paint but transom it good stringers are good been stored indoors int is good and it has a new 454 with fresh drive only draw back is it's an alpha ! Not sure of the weight or the beam size just yet still trying to look up specs on it.

The boats I talked about are able to take the beating the great lakes will hand out, built old school. Lots of stuff broke on the 50 Nor Tech on the same trip we had 2 36 APACHES that nothing broke on, we just got wet.

Ah I see ok will look for one you recommended thanks Again

Panteras are a hand built custom boat , Baja's are production boats.
Typically (not always) hand built custom boats built "old shcool" are heavier,tougher and have more reinforcement than a production style boat. Things like top and bottom fiberglassed togther instead of just screwed together, Thru bolted fittings instead of just lagged in,etc..
How many Baja's have you seen in an offshore race?
How many Panteras?
:)

Video reply .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssusWKXS0iA

35 Fountain running with a 28 Pantera ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbH9Qdp7C8w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uelhY3NhecI

PANTERA'S are AWESOME... tho i'll probably still buy something else in the mid 30's range as my next boat... great pics!

Must have been some NASTY weather to tear up a 50ft Nor Tech.

Found a 1994 27' scarab w/580 ci Dart engine, solid roller cam,roller rockers, air gap intake,1050 holley carb,lightning headers, twin bats new, custom paint,w/matching int,new stereo,amp,subs,new covers,mooring, camper, bimini, says it runs 70 mph loaded and 75+ light on GPS !
would this be a good boat for MI great lakes area ?

Better then your 20..but not good enough !!!!:party-smiley-004: