Bob's Jag
06-17-2010, 11:36 PM
#81
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Rob, We can run as many miles and as hard as you want. I would like to get the boats together, that would be great. I typically can not make the whole run on full tanks. I usually top off the tanks at the 1st stop. I try to go to the friday nite party by boat and someone in the crew drives to discovery bay by truck to drive the drunks to the hotel. The boats overnite at the poker run start and finish. Discovery bay is about 30 miles by boat from where we launch and the 1st stop is about 30 miles, hence the need to fill up. We do not have to hit all the stops. There are usually 3 main stops with some lesser stops that we sometimes miss. It will cost me with hotel and fuel and entry under $1000.00 That is alot of money but fuel is the cheapest thing that we can buy for these pigs. Doug
09-02-2010, 09:19 PM
#82
Registered
Bob , super job .
I know I gotta dig up some photos for you . My crew chief has photos from start to finish but the nitz can't use a computer !
One of these days I'll get them .
I can't believe the weight . Like I said in another post , we were thrown a curve ball and I'll advised . Every boat I ran was a winner except for that one and throwin money at it didn't help .
I'm glad to see you guys ditchin' the tunnel extensions , just more unecessary weight . Also regarding the deck hatches , my blood pressure spiked when I saw them . Our Jag was the only one that ever had them . Why ? I'll never know and never got a straight answer from Jack . Our relationship was strained and rapidly deteriorated once I got the hull home and started getting inquisitive .
I'm honest to a fault and and a no bull**** straight forward individual . Had I built that boat I would have been forthcoming on any bit of information because I'd want my creation to run successfully , especially at a time when Skater was poised to pounce . I guess I'll just let history do the talking .
When I balked at buying the tunnel extension from Jack for some ridiculous price because I had fabricators on staff who could easily make one , he said no problem , just build it to like 18 degrees ( or something like that ) and you'll be fine . When we go to install it it's hanging down in the tunnel area like a trim tab . I call Jack and he says we also needed to add the transom angle to the 18 degrees so it really wasn't 18 degrees it was 30 or something , but not the angle he said to build it to .
Like I said curve balls .
I know I gotta dig up some photos for you . My crew chief has photos from start to finish but the nitz can't use a computer !
One of these days I'll get them .
I can't believe the weight . Like I said in another post , we were thrown a curve ball and I'll advised . Every boat I ran was a winner except for that one and throwin money at it didn't help .
I'm glad to see you guys ditchin' the tunnel extensions , just more unecessary weight . Also regarding the deck hatches , my blood pressure spiked when I saw them . Our Jag was the only one that ever had them . Why ? I'll never know and never got a straight answer from Jack . Our relationship was strained and rapidly deteriorated once I got the hull home and started getting inquisitive .
I'm honest to a fault and and a no bull**** straight forward individual . Had I built that boat I would have been forthcoming on any bit of information because I'd want my creation to run successfully , especially at a time when Skater was poised to pounce . I guess I'll just let history do the talking .
When I balked at buying the tunnel extension from Jack for some ridiculous price because I had fabricators on staff who could easily make one , he said no problem , just build it to like 18 degrees ( or something like that ) and you'll be fine . When we go to install it it's hanging down in the tunnel area like a trim tab . I call Jack and he says we also needed to add the transom angle to the 18 degrees so it really wasn't 18 degrees it was 30 or something , but not the angle he said to build it to .
Like I said curve balls .
09-03-2010, 08:17 PM
#84
Registered
Carbed 500s with Gils as per rules , 1490 hp , Merc V drives , borg warner trans , upper 90's .
My Chris with the same power ran low 120's and would eat it in any water .
I presently own a 42 Fountain and am well into the process of restoring my old Chris Cat to it's original livery .
The Chris Cat is one of the best cat hulls of all time . These fast old race boats of the modern era are like COPO Camaros to me .
They built many more Chris Cats than Jags , however very few survive and only a handfull are probably " race " seaworthy and I'll bet fewer than ten 35 Jags were ever built .
My Chris with the same power ran low 120's and would eat it in any water .
I presently own a 42 Fountain and am well into the process of restoring my old Chris Cat to it's original livery .
The Chris Cat is one of the best cat hulls of all time . These fast old race boats of the modern era are like COPO Camaros to me .
They built many more Chris Cats than Jags , however very few survive and only a handfull are probably " race " seaworthy and I'll bet fewer than ten 35 Jags were ever built .
Last edited by aex; 09-03-2010 at 08:22 PM.
09-05-2010, 10:08 AM
#85
Platinum Member
Platinum MemberThread Starter
Interesting info aex; thanks for sharing!
I too owned a Chris Cat and liked it. It weighed 8,500# & it took 800 hp per side to run 125 mph. The CC is now owned by another OSO member who uses it on an inland lake; he likes it. It's a great boat, but (in my and my wife's opinion) its not near as good in snotty water (like we get in Galveston Bay) as my Jag. Maybe it's because of the extra 5'?
I removed the tunnel extension and other items too. When converting the Jag, the focus was on reducing weight, better CG (horizontal and vertical), and removing the hook in the sponsons. Note: it doesn't porpoise.
Props seem to be critical to the Jag's performance and with today's prop selections, we probably have a big advantage over what was available when the boats were originally built. Just by getting the correct props (Herings), we picked up 6 mph, but expect more with tweaking. With close to the same engines as in the CC, this boat, which weighs 10,500# runs great (substantially over 90)
Please keep us posted with the resoration of your CC. That's going to be an awesome project!
Due
I too owned a Chris Cat and liked it. It weighed 8,500# & it took 800 hp per side to run 125 mph. The CC is now owned by another OSO member who uses it on an inland lake; he likes it. It's a great boat, but (in my and my wife's opinion) its not near as good in snotty water (like we get in Galveston Bay) as my Jag. Maybe it's because of the extra 5'?
I removed the tunnel extension and other items too. When converting the Jag, the focus was on reducing weight, better CG (horizontal and vertical), and removing the hook in the sponsons. Note: it doesn't porpoise.
Props seem to be critical to the Jag's performance and with today's prop selections, we probably have a big advantage over what was available when the boats were originally built. Just by getting the correct props (Herings), we picked up 6 mph, but expect more with tweaking. With close to the same engines as in the CC, this boat, which weighs 10,500# runs great (substantially over 90)
Please keep us posted with the resoration of your CC. That's going to be an awesome project!
Due
Last edited by Dueclaws; 09-05-2010 at 10:18 AM.
09-05-2010, 04:43 PM
#86
Registered
The Jags are great in the rough ! Hammer down and go !
I was fortunate enough to own one of the last Chris Cats built . The later ones were still slopily built but foam cored so the core was a lot lighter and couldn't absorb the resin they gratuitously slobbered evrywhere during construction .
I had all the wood ( bulkheads , stringers , transom ) removed and replaced with foam / epoxy vaccum bagged replacements . They also ground all the excess slop from inside and cleared the entire inside with awlgrip . It's a sight to behold . I haven't weighed it yet but the builders estimated we shed almost 800 lbs . These guys are real artisans whose resumes include everything from America's Cup winning yachts to aircraft parts . I'm very fortunate to have close ties with these huys otherwise they would never even consider a project like this .
My Chris ( race hull w canopies ) ran low 120's with 1500 horses and I know this for sure . We dusted the video chopper at one race and the pilots told me they could run 115 max with the doors open and couldn't catch us . At that race we also set an average course speed record of almost 118 mph for the 90 mile event . Those were the days !
I to this day can't figure why my Jag was so hefty . I've always liked the Jags 'cause they look like missiles and have clean sharp lines .
I used to rev my motors to the wood , Bob's boat with blowers should make significant torque and propel him to high speeds without pushing the rpm .
I'm very impressed with his project and glad to see how well it has progressed .
You Jag guys got it goin' on . I'll keep an eye here to monitor progress .
PS , I was around when Gifford's Jag was brand new , what a vessel that was .
Best wishes and luck to you all .
Jim
I was fortunate enough to own one of the last Chris Cats built . The later ones were still slopily built but foam cored so the core was a lot lighter and couldn't absorb the resin they gratuitously slobbered evrywhere during construction .
I had all the wood ( bulkheads , stringers , transom ) removed and replaced with foam / epoxy vaccum bagged replacements . They also ground all the excess slop from inside and cleared the entire inside with awlgrip . It's a sight to behold . I haven't weighed it yet but the builders estimated we shed almost 800 lbs . These guys are real artisans whose resumes include everything from America's Cup winning yachts to aircraft parts . I'm very fortunate to have close ties with these huys otherwise they would never even consider a project like this .
My Chris ( race hull w canopies ) ran low 120's with 1500 horses and I know this for sure . We dusted the video chopper at one race and the pilots told me they could run 115 max with the doors open and couldn't catch us . At that race we also set an average course speed record of almost 118 mph for the 90 mile event . Those were the days !
I to this day can't figure why my Jag was so hefty . I've always liked the Jags 'cause they look like missiles and have clean sharp lines .
I used to rev my motors to the wood , Bob's boat with blowers should make significant torque and propel him to high speeds without pushing the rpm .
I'm very impressed with his project and glad to see how well it has progressed .
You Jag guys got it goin' on . I'll keep an eye here to monitor progress .
PS , I was around when Gifford's Jag was brand new , what a vessel that was .
Best wishes and luck to you all .
Jim
Last edited by aex; 09-05-2010 at 04:50 PM.
09-05-2010, 11:09 PM
#87
Banned
My Chris ( race hull w canopies ) ran low 120's with 1500 horses and I know this for sure . We dusted the video chopper at one race and the pilots told me they could run 115 max with the doors open and couldn't catch us . At that race we also set an average course speed record of almost 118 mph for the 90 mile event . aex
My first ride in a cat was in a 1996 American Offshore 3100. We ran 114 with 675s and Bravos. I think the owner said it weighed around 7200lbs, so with 750s it would probly run low 120s...
My first ride in a cat was in a 1996 American Offshore 3100. We ran 114 with 675s and Bravos. I think the owner said it weighed around 7200lbs, so with 750s it would probly run low 120s...
09-06-2010, 10:27 PM
#88
Registered
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I cannot figure why the Jag's are such turds! If you look at the bottom they look like they should do much better speed wise than they do for the power. I would have bet anything based on power and weight i would have been at least 110 and more closer to 120. I think they look great because they are a little different. I get alot of questions and compliments when at havasu because the boat is different than anything else their.
09-07-2010, 10:43 AM
#89
Platinum Member
Platinum MemberThread Starter
I cannot figure why the Jag's are such turds! If you look at the bottom they look like they should do much better speed wise than they do for the power. I would have bet anything based on power and weight i would have been at least 110 and more closer to 120. I think they look great because they are a little different. I get alot of questions and compliments when at havasu because the boat is different than anything else their.
Keep working your setup. A couple of things that I believe hinder your Jag's performance: weight distribution and props. I believe Jags perform better with the engines farther forward and they seem to like diameter (unfortunately Bravos are limited). I tried 16.5 diameter, but it runs better with 17".
John Tomlinson and I agree: we believe more diameter is necessary; it might have to do with the water flow around the sponson's pad.
