Philm

Good info Tom. I find it entirely possible that when running at 80mph, throwing a power steering belt could make it impossible for a driver to correct to changing sea conditions fast enough to prevent an incident. I threw one and didnt have any adverse effects, other then losing power steering of course, but can see what could happen if i had been running faster. Anyone who has driven a hydraulic steering boat with no pressure on teh system can vouch for the fact that it is hard enough to steer a straight line, let alone correct for anything unexpected.

Timeless61

how do these systems work? I only know about outboard systems where there is no power. how do these differ without the power steering part, as compared to what i know that is used on an outboard boat?

phragle

iTrader: (3)

If tossing a belt is that critical in a hyd. steering boat, why not run a dual belt setup?

jdub

iTrader: (1)

The outboard systems use a Capilano style helm in which the helm unit also acts as the pump. The Char-lynn style helm, which most of us use, requires the use of a pump assist. That's why we need the power steering pump on our motors. Throwing a belt off the power steering pump makes it hard to turn the wheel but not impossible. Depending on conditions and speed I could see where it could cause a problem for the driver.

Vinny P

I have been following this tragedy since it happened but havent posted my thoughts. First off, I would like to extend my condolences to Dons friends and family. I have never talked to Don directly, but it seems it was my loss for not having the opportunity to do so.
My thoughts on the loss of control issues are just my thoughts and opinions. I have never experienced a loss of power assist to my steering system and I hope it stays that way. My boat runs no where near as fast as did his. However, I believe that a tossed belt causing loss of power assist is not enough of a problem to cause a loss of control. Yes, it will make the wheel hard to turn, but why would it cause a loss of control? It will most definately could be a contributing factor. For example... if the boat launched off a wave and needed some steering input to correct its course, the wheel would feel hard to turn, but still would turn. That may surprise a driver, causing him to over correct? Not sure. I understand that boat was rigged with a -3 Imco SC lower and a 5 blade prop. At 70 to 80 mph, where this accident occured, is there enough torque going through the engine and drive to cause a loss of control, just becasue of loss of power assist? Seconds before the accident, Frank remembered the wheel shaking, then loss of control. Would a tossed belt cause this shaking? If so, then we all need to evaluate our steering systems for some sort of back up system, in case we toss a belt at speed. I wonder what the manufacturers of hydraulic steering systems have to say about this. Have they ever tested for this scenario before?
Lastly, I honestly am not trying to be critical of anything or anybody here. I am just trying to help figure out what may have happened, to help us all out in the future.

Mastercraft240

damn john. I thought you were all muscle, no brain. Guess not.

30ctsutphen

Its hard to beleive that a thrown belt is all that could be wrong with the boat with this outcome, but I guess it teaches us all a lesson that we are more fragile than we think at times.

There was a post where Don was refering to something else entirely in the build thread and he said something like Well I guess if your times up your times up and my time was up.

It had nothing to do with anything like this, it was about some leak or something that made the engines have to be pulled I honestly cant remember.

I would like to add that having run some race cars with Gen 7 DFI fuel injection and turbos/blowers. I know that you can sometimes get a rich condition that will blow out the spark in the engine for a moment and then the fire will come back. It usually depends on what Injectors, plug and gap combo your running.

That momentary lapse of power in a high HP application can make the car lurch.

I wonder if they were datalogging thier files durring the run??

Is anyone familiar with Gen 7 DFI that is looking over the boat this could be a good place to look for more info on the cause.


The datalog can tell you allot about how the engine was running at the time.

This may hold some info for the family Heres an Excerpt from the build thread:
(cant wait for accel any more. I may run it in closed loop and data log, then every run I can make adjustments to the cells to get them closer to the AF mix I want.)

Maybe it will help them to know all the answers they can about what happened.

Philm

The comments about the power steering system are true, with the exception that it could be possible to over correct for something if you didnt have power steering. Like I said before, I have had to run my boat with no power steering for 20+ miles, and it is hard enough to turn the wheel at all, let alone correct for cross wakes while running at speed. It is seriously like trying to turn the wheel of an old manual steering car while it is stopped. My arms were shot by the end of that ride, just from fighting with the wheel. I would NEVER have been able to correct for something abnormal, you just cant turn the wheel fast enough to do it. Even you Jdub, meathead that you are.

I see it as a good possibility that this could be a contributing factor to the crash, in conjunction with high speeds and possible cross wakes. Running fast, lose power steering, hit cross wakes at the same time. The boat will start to wobble/chine walk badly, and with no power steering you just cannot respond to it fast enough. 99 times out of a 100 you might get away with it just by chopping the throttle.

zt260

I’ve been in shock for the week over this tragedy, so I have also reserved my comments. I want to express my condolences to the family. I learned he had a son about 9 years old and that hits very close. My son is 7 and I feel terrible for his son. I met Don only briefly at Performance Marine a few weeks ago, and we shared the very same passion for speed.

My engine was also built at Performance Marine. 26’ Checkmate with about the same HP and runs over 110mph. I have lost power steering on three occasions, but never over 80mph. It was always a belt failure. It makes the boat very hard to steer, but should not cause an accident like this unless it was at higher speed or he was correcting in rough water at the moment it failed. I would hazard a guess that’s exactly what happened. He was most likely driving one hand on the wheel and one on the throttle as is almost required with these boats. The belt broke at a critical time, and he lost the wheel. As he tried to hang on the throttle came back still in gear.

I’ve been known to drive with no vest, helmet or lanyard at over 100mph. That will not happen again. Rest In Peace Don, hopefully we can all learn from this and save some lives, possibly my own.

Timeless61

why can a system like what is used on outboards not be used for i/o's? seems like power steering belts do break at times? the outboard cats I have driven have been very hard to turn in comparison to Don's boat for instance or other power steering boats I have driven. so just wondering why that can not be use, just not strong enough?