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Old 02-09-2011 | 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by chase8
Rage, what mods did you do on your engine? Is it a Raylar? I'm looking at different options myself. I have an 06 Heat with the 496 HO. I'm in Utah so the altitude here eats up the horsepower. Anyway I'm looking to upgrade, been leaning toward a blue motor or possibly a custom build.
Lots of mods in three seperate incremental steps to 490hp, then ~550hp(stock intake) and finally 625hp. I wish I had known in the begining what in the end I would really want/need. Do not pick away at it. Decide how fast you want to go and then work backwards from that as to the upgrades in engine, drive and steering that are required to support your speed goal. Please do as I suggest not as I (mistakingly) did. I wasted a lot of $$$.

The current engine package is a GM HP3 Gen II (iron) heads and valve train (except Comp Cam 929 springs & stock lifters) plus bigger Ferrea 2.25" intake/1.84" exhaust valves ported, set up by Jim Valako, Raylar intake, Bored and ported throttle body, Adjustable fuel pressure regulator, Raylar (Mahle) forged pistons, Raylar (Scat) forged stroker crank and rods, Melling HV oil pump, 120F thermostat, Hardin Marine 3x18 thermostatically controlled oil cooler, all AN-10 oil lines and fittings, Dana Flow Torque manifolds with #5 risers and many many custom PCM555 ECU recals by Dustin Whipple now at 50 psi fuel pressure with HP3 timing on 87 octane. Peak power is at 5300-5400 rpm rev limiter 6000rpm.

I was blessed with a ton of help from two engine builder mentors that are listed at the beginning of this thread. I knew very little about custom engine builds at the start. They lead me to where I am today. One is located in Utah.
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Old 02-09-2011 | 02:44 PM
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Thanks for the heads up. I have followed some "miserable upgrade stories" here and there, with guys losing entire seasons trying to get the bugs worked out etc. Sounds like it took you awhile but you finally got it done. I will see what Dave can do and go from there. Thanks again
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Old 08-02-2011 | 06:29 AM
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Sounds like your project went very smoothly! I wish ours did... hell I started the project the last week of January and IT IS STILL NOT DONE! With everything corner turned there is yet another fist in my face. And now with the engine not even to the point of running it looks like there is an oil leak coming the oil pan seal in the front or just above it. IT HASN'T EVEN BEEN IN THE WATER YET!

I had the work done at a reputable off shore engine builder and we expecting a lot more out of him I guess. Like for instance engine build specs, cam information and cam installation/position specs. Non of which I have!

Ray at Raylar is GREAT! He has helped me out quite a bit and I am thankful for that. He always takes my calls and answers my questions.
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Old 12-02-2012 | 11:09 AM
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Since the last post I have added full hydraulic steering in an attempt to control the chine walking and started the dial in process of a Bravo B30 c/o BBlades to bring the WOT rpm for max mph at optimum trim down from 5800 rpm with the labbed B28 to the 5300-5400 rpm peak power band of the engine. I also optimized the previous cold air induction system to reduce the manifold air press drop enough so that the hp gain from the cold air (versus the hot engine compartment air) into the manifold provides a net gain. Best run so far with full gas tanks, bow cover on, driver only and 100.4% relative HP atmospherics was 86.2 mph at 5309 rpm and 7 degrees of positive drive trim on light chop water with the BBlades revision #1 labbed B30. Above 7.2 degrees trim the speed fell off. The stock B30 ran under essentially identical conditions and relative HP atmospherics produced 84.8 mph @5275 rpm with 9.5 degrees of positive trim. Data attached. The best speed I posted previously with the BBlades revision #1 labbed B28 was 85.6 mph @5850 rpm but that was with half empty tanks and 103% relative HP atmospherics ( about 19 more HP). A later test of BBlades revision #2 labbed B28 with 97% relative HP atmospherics ( about 19 less HP) and full tanks netted 84.0 mph @5620 rpm. I was trying to get into the motor's peak power band with the B28. The original ProPellor labbed B28 ran 84.8 mph @5800 rpm at 103% relative HP (about 19 more HP) and full tanks. All of the B28 prop tests were run with the stock flame arrestor and no cold air induction.

My frustration is that I am still not free of the chine walking at max mph/rpm drive trim position even with the full hydraulic steering. Chine walking is definitely much better now than with the manual steering /external hydraulic steering ram. I am interested in any information on what are the chine walking stability limits for the Nordic Rage in degrees of positive trim angle at 86 mph with a Bravo 1 drive. I need this optimum stable trim angle for the BBlades revision #2 B30 target.

Are there any other factors in Nordic Rage set up that can increase / decrease chine walking sensitivity at 86 mph. At 83 mph and below there is no chine walking problem.

Last edited by Rage; 12-02-2012 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 12-02-2012 | 11:49 AM
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Great to see you back on here. I've been wondering what you've been up to. Thought maybe you lost interest and moved on to something else. Call me sometime.


Originally Posted by Rage
Since the last post I have added full hydraulic steering in an attempt to control the chine walking and started the dial in process of a Bravo B30 c/o BBlades to bring the WOT rpm for max mph at optimum trim down from 5800 rpm with the labbed B28 to the 5300-5400 rpm peak power band of the engine. I also optimized the previous cold air induction system to reduce the manifold air press drop enough so that the hp gain from the cold air (versus the hot engine compartment air) into the manifold provides a net gain. Best run so far with full gas tanks, bow cover on, driver only and 100.4% relative HP atmospherics was 86.2 mph at 5309 rpm and 7 degrees of positive drive trim on light chop water with the BBlades revision #1 labbed B30. Above 7.2 degrees trim the speed fell off. The stock B30 ran under essentially identical conditions and relative HP atmospherics produced 84.8 mph @5275 rpm with 9.5 degrees of positive trim. Data attached. The best speed I posted previously with the BBlades revision #1 labbed B28 was 85.6 mph @5850 rpm but that was with half empty tanks and 103% relative HP atmospherics ( about 19 more HP). A later test of BBlades revision #2 labbed B28 with 97% relative HP atmospherics ( about 19 less HP) and full tanks netted 84.0 mph @5620 rpm. I was trying to get into the motor's peak power band with the B28. The original ProPellor labbed B28 ran 84.8 mph @5800 rpm at 103% relative HP (about 19 more HP) and full tanks. All of the B28 prop tests were run with the stock flame arrestor and no cold air induction.

My frustration is that I am still not free of the chine walking at max mph/rpm drive trim position even with the full hydraulic steering. Chine walking is definitely much better now than with the manual steering /external hydraulic steering ram. I am interested in any information on what are the chine walking stability limits for the Nordic Rage in degrees of positive trim angle at 86 mph with a Bravo 1 drive. I need this optimum stable trim angle for the BBlades revision #2 B30 target.

Are there any other factors in Nordic Rage set up that can increase / decrease chine walking sensitivity at 86 mph. At 83 mph and below there is no chine walking problem.
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Old 12-02-2012 | 09:29 PM
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Bill, Your Rage is a light hull with a small pad. I wonder if running at WOT, full fuel (Rage has side tanks), but only one person is causing the boat to fall off the Pad initiating chine walk. Maybe try taking a passenger next time for balance.

My best YTD run was 94mph at Havasu over Monster Bash '12 with zero chine walk. This was on very flat water, maybe 6" of ripple, driver and one passenger.
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Old 12-06-2012 | 06:06 PM
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Bill, one thing that really stands out to me in your setup that could be causing and/or aggravating your chine walk is your trim angle. If you can get your boat to run with the propshaft more parallel to the pad, it will handle better at speed and use your horsepower more efficiently. You are headed in the right direction with the labbed 30" prop.
I am not familiar with the X dimension on the Rage. Just a theory, on Butch's older '96 Heat with a deep (I think it was 15.5"s) XD, he always had to run a lot of trim to (semi)surface his propeller, which induced a lot of porpoising. We put a 2" shorty on his boat (now with a theoretical 17.5" XD), and it runs much better, even though it runs flatter. It requires very little if any positive trim now. I run maybe 1 or 2 degrees max. On my manual Livorsi gauge, with a 1-10 scale, I cruise at 2, and run WOT at 2.5 to 3. 2.5 on my gauge is parallel to the pad. My XD with a 1" spacer is 18.25"s.
Has anyone tried a short lower on a fast Rage? How did that work? Although a 4 blade should have plenty of blade area for your boat, has anyone tried a 5 blade on a fast Rage?
Lateral weight placement is also critical to getting a pad vee to handle properly at high speed. There is so little hull in contact with the water, they are inherently unstable. When your fuel is level in both tanks, does the boat fall off the pad to one side? If it does, reduce your gas load on that side. I run 1/4 tank more on the right to offset the propeller torque on my boat, which tries to roll the boat to port.
Bob L had one at Lake Cumberland a few years ago with blown 540 in it. I know it was really fast. He probably has some ideas for you.
Best Regards,
Steve

Last edited by Steve Zuckerman; 12-07-2012 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 12-07-2012 | 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Zuckerman
Bill, one thing that really stands out to me in your setup that could be causing and/or aggravating your chine walk is your trim angle. If you can get your boat to run with the propshaft more parallel to the pad, it will handle better at speed and use your horsepower more efficiently. You are headed in the right direction with the labbed 30" prop.
I am not familiar with the X dimension on the Rage. Just a theory, on Butch's older '96 Heat with a deep (I think it was 15.5"s) XD, he always had to run a lot of trim to (semi)surface his propeller, which induced a lot of porpoising. We put a 2" shorty on his boat (now with a theoretical 17.5" XD), and it runs much better, even though it runs flatter. It requires very little if any positive trim now. I run maybe 1 or 2 degrees max. On my manual Livorsi gauge, with a 1-10 scale, I cruise at 2, and run WOT at 2.5 to 3. 2.5 on my gauge is parallel to the pad. My XD with a 1" spacer is 18.25"s.
Has anyone tried a short lower on a fast Rage? How did that work? Although a 4 blade should have plenty of blade area for your boat, has anyone tried a 5 blade on a fast Rage?
Lateral weight placement is also critical to getting a pad vee to handle properly at high speed. There is so little hull in contact with the water, they are inherently unstable. When your fuel is level in both tanks, does the boat fall off the pad to one side? If it does, reduce your gas load on that side. I run 1/4 tank more on the right to offset the propeller torque on my boat, which tries to roll the boat to port.
Bob L had one at Lake Cumberland a few years ago with blown 540 in it. I know it was really fast. He probably has some ideas for you.
Best Regards,
Steve
That boat just had add on hydraulic steering and chine walked really bad with trim. It would run around 90 with minimal trim and pretty solid. Once you started trimming it would get really crazy. He sold it before we got full hydraulic steering on it. The Rage does require a lot of trim to get maximum speed. Never tried a shorter drive on one.

Bob
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Old 12-10-2012 | 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bobl
Great to see you back on here. I've been wondering what you've been up to. Thought maybe you lost interest and moved on to something else. Call me sometime.
Hi Bob. I was on a bit of a hiatus. I had to completely rip out and replace our brick patio and repaint the house in St Louis. I did not get to see the lake until July. Now I am back to finish the Nordic project mostly with prop dial in remaining. I'll call.

Bill

Last edited by Rage; 12-10-2012 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 12-10-2012 | 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DesertRage
Bill, Your Rage is a light hull with a small pad. I wonder if running at WOT, full fuel (Rage has side tanks), but only one person is causing the boat to fall off the Pad initiating chine walk. Maybe try taking a passenger next time for balance.

My best YTD run was 94mph at Havasu over Monster Bash '12 with zero chine walk. This was on very flat water, maybe 6" of ripple, driver and one passenger.
I think what you say makes a lot of sense. I will try that. Thanks, Bill

Last edited by Rage; 12-10-2012 at 04:51 PM.
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